Degrees are practically useless for piloting an aircraft.
Yes but they also show that you are capable of applying yourself to a problem, understanding it and overcoming it. Someone without a degree could be equally capable of doing so but a degree is proof that you can.
When it comes to employing people with limited aviation experience (who don't have a bunch of PPC's on complex aircraft as proof they can master them) who would you take a chance of investing your money in.
I agree, I have an engineering degree and while it does not make me a better pilot it has helped me learn how to study effectively and absorb information quickly when doing a new type rating.
bearitus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 am
I agree, I have an engineering degree and while it does not make me a better pilot it has helped me learn how to study effectively and absorb information quickly when doing a new type rating.
I hope that the $50k you spent for someone to teach you how to study was worth it
What’s the value of a degree to a pilot or employer? It’s just one more criteria they can use to narrow their field and pick their people. Same as speaking several languages, other post-secondary education, achievements in fields outside of aviation, community involvement, and hobbies.
I certainly agree that flying experience is the most valuable thing a pilot can bring to the table, up to a point, and the airlines clearly agree as that’s always their primary criteria. But it can’t exclusively be summed up by hours and type ratings. Is a 4000hr 737 pilot going to be appreciably better than a 3000hr one? Is that 3000hr 737 better than a 5000hr Q400 guy? Are both better or worse than a 1500hr C-17 or F-18 pilot? What about a guy who spent 1000hrs crop dusting or flying floats in the bush before working through regional airline jobs?
There are exceptional pilots with low time, no degree, who sit around playing video games in their off-time and have the personality of dry toast. There are also shitty ones.
There are exceptional pilots with high time, multiple degrees, multi-lingual, tons of hobbies and charisma to the moon. There are also shitty ones that check every box.
End of the day pilots are just people, running the full spectrum. It’s why iinterviews & sim evals are still a thing. The more criteria an employer looks at the easier it is for them to pick & choose their people without being sued.
bearitus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 am
I agree, I have an engineering degree and while it does not make me a better pilot it has helped me learn how to study effectively and absorb information quickly when doing a new type rating.
I hope that the $50k you spent for someone to teach you how to study was worth it
Most of my degree was paid by scholarship money. I do often question the choice to become a pilot after getting the degree though.
"When you hire an educated employee, you receive an individual with a pre-existing skill set. In the process of acquiring an education, individuals develop their capacity to observe, analyze and act on information. In translating this ability the workplace, educated employees exhibit a greater aptitude for handling large, complex projects in a more productive and efficient manner as compared to their less-educated workers. In addition to the bonus of a pre-existing skill set, educated employees generally exhibit higher levels of motivation, which in turn leads to higher quality output and fewer errors."
Most of my degree was paid by scholarship money. I do often question the choice to become a pilot after getting the degree though.
I also have an engineering degree and yes I also sometimes question why I decided to give up my engineering job for a Pilot job. It certainly wasn't a good move financially but in other ways it was.
bearitus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 am
I agree, I have an engineering degree and while it does not make me a better pilot it has helped me learn how to study effectively and absorb information quickly when doing a new type rating.
I hope that the $50k you spent for someone to teach you how to study was worth it
Most of my degree was paid by scholarship money. I do often question the choice to become a pilot after getting the degree though.
I got a degree 30 years ago in economics and worked banking for 10 before becoming a pilot. No one ever asked to see my degree and I never needed it to do a well paid job. Since becoming a pilot no one has ever asked either. Lucky back then the government paid for most of it
I was an automotive Mechanic before becoming a pilot and I found it really helped me with understanding systems, engines, hydraulics and electrical. I didn't even graduate from high school, I had no trouble with that stuff. Meteorology on the other hand I'm horrible with, I've never really fully understood it.
Laguardia wrote: ↑Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:01 pm
Long time lurker and I just couldn't help myself and decided to make an account and ask a question regarding this article
Where on earth is this shortage and upcoming sever shortage? I have a cpl with a cat 1 IFR and around 300 hours, yet I can't seem to get a job... All I've gotten were several offers for ramp positions which I am refused given all these shortages I keep hearing of... What gives? They make it sound as if airlines are so desperate for pilots they should be knocking on the door of every pilot who's registered in TCs database...
Everytime I read an article like this it makes me sick... There's a shortage of pilots you say? Ok, how about stop making them work ramp first, then pay them a decent salary, not minimum wage (or lower if they can get away with it) and then don't work them to the bone by pushing 14 hour duty days. All this doing you're time on the ramp stuff is old news and ridiculous. For all those who say I had to do it years ago, suck it up and get over it... that was then, not now... I get that you're sour and had to put up with a bunch of BS but that's not anyone's fault, those were the circumstances
There's alot more things I can point out but it's pointless really as this post won't do much... I just feel like I needed to vent in an aviation forum setting... I have recently given up on trying to be a pilot as my career, too much garbage to put up with for not enough reward in my opinion... I also know way too many annoyed/depressed pilots who all they do is complain all the time, yet they have great paying jobs and are in a great position... Given a lot of these factors, I've happily settled for a fairly good paying job in a different field, with the potential to rise and make great money with none of the very high stressors that come with being a pilot for an airline... I'll keep flying for fun as a side hobby but it's just a damn shame it has to be this way for some
You could say I'm sour and pissed because I haven't gotten a job and it could just be me who's at fault... Well to those I say feel free to believe whatever you want
Stop whining, get an instructor rating, the jobs will fall at your feet. Get 1000 hours then complain if you cant get a job.
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This thread makes me chuckle. What’s with all the hate for starting on the ramp? I spent 3 years on the ramp at CYYC while taking aeronautical engineering technology. During that time I worked with several people who moved onto successful careers as pilots, AMEs, structures technicians, etc. I even worked an additional year part time as a rampie just for fun at a flight school/charter outfit and watched several people progress from ramp to instructor and eventually charters in Navajos, Medevac flights in King Airs and up to Westjet and Air Canada
During my time at CYYC I noticed some elitist, smug pilots who would look down their noses at anyone who wasn’t a pilot like them (as if their role was so much more important than anyone else at the airport) and I noticed plenty of pilots who were the exact opposite. I was shocked at several Westjet pilots between 2000 and 2003 who would come outside onto the ramp and help load bags to minimize delays on the loaded flights while talking and joking around with rampies.
I personally feel working the ramp fosters a buildup of camaraderie between people who will branch off and end up in those pilot, AME, structures, and engineering roles without the thought of being better than others. Look at all the dick swinging of degree vs. non-degree in this thread LOL. Some of you should work the ramp together for a while!
I know people that have degrees and some of them are the dumbest people I know, can't even figure out how to change a flat tire on their car and have never really accomplished anything. On the other hand I guys who I went to school with who dropped out in grade 10, went to work construction as a labourer, worked hard, slowly moved up and one now owns his own construction company and the other is a respected foreman, they have done very well for themselves. A degree means nothing in the end, it doesn't mean you are smarter or better.
Having a degree is nothing to do with meaning your smarter or better than somebody who doesn't have a degree, its just having an extended education in a particular subject and proving that you're capable of doing so.
If somebody was building a skyscraper next to my house I'd rather they had a degree in architecture and was totally incapable of changing a flat tire than the other way round.
Interesting that this beaten to death topic of degree/no degree issue keeps coming up. WHO CARES!
How about we spend our time motivating our government to address the issues of flight and duty times, ATPL requirements and other avenues that will improve our industry instead?
ehv8oar wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:01 am
Having a degree is nothing to do with meaning your smarter or better than somebody who doesn't have a degree, its just having an extended education in a particular subject and proving that you're capable of doing so.
If somebody was building a skyscraper next to my house I'd rather they had a degree in architecture and was totally incapable of changing a flat tire than the other way round.
I doubt you would find an architect on a any job site
