How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

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formercarsalesperson
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How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#1 Post by formercarsalesperson » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:11 am

Hello all,

I was wondering how I would go about building meaningful connections to be able to land my first job in this industry? The problem is that I don’t know anyone in aviation and I am a nobody in the industry. I am just worried that once my training is completed, I won’t have any connections to turn to for a job reference.

I know that a lot of you will suggest making connections with instructors, don’t burn bridges, etc... However, I am a stand-alone CPL/IR student at a flight school. I know 3 other students at the school, the school staff, and a few pilots I have talked to on instagram. That’s about it. This is largely because I work full time and only fly on weekends.

Another reason I ask this question, is because a lot of options to other people out there such as a “Jazz cadet, porter early connections, etc...” are simply not available to me as I did not attend an aviation college. Furthermore, I see a lot of students from various aviation colleges/universities taking part in events which gives them exposure to the industry, but again I am not eligible for those either as I am a stand alone CPL/IR students who attends a flight school. You ask why I didn’t attend an aviation college/university/integrated program? Money, I simply couldn’t afford it.

Anyone have a solution as to how I can build connections?

Thanks for the help!
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#2 Post by Lightchop » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:08 am

The "Jazz pathways program" and such are a very new thing in the last few years. Do what the rest of did before pilots got hired flying a Q out of school. The fact you only mentioned these programs tells me you need to lower your expectations a bit for your first job. Find something with pistons.

Pack your car, and hit the road. Canada is a big country.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#3 Post by Adam Oke » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:37 am

I believe Porter's early connection program is open to everyone.

https://porter.rivs.com/careers/portercareers/13-91-31/
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#4 Post by 7507 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:55 am

formercarsalesperson wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:11 am
Hello all,

I was wondering how I would go about building meaningful connections to be able to land my first job in this industry? The problem is that I don’t know anyone in aviation and I am a nobody in the industry. I am just worried that once my training is completed, I won’t have any connections to turn to for a job reference.

I know that a lot of you will suggest making connections with instructors, don’t burn bridges, etc... However, I am a stand-alone CPL/IR student at a flight school. I know 3 other students at the school, the school staff, and a few pilots I have talked to on instagram. That’s about it. This is largely because I work full time and only fly on weekends.

Another reason I ask this question, is because a lot of options to other people out there such as a “Jazz cadet, porter early connections, etc...” are simply not available to me as I did not attend an aviation college. Furthermore, I see a lot of students from various aviation colleges/universities taking part in events which gives them exposure to the industry, but again I am not eligible for those either as I am a stand alone CPL/IR students who attends a flight school. You ask why I didn’t attend an aviation college/university/integrated program? Money, I simply couldn’t afford it.

Anyone have a solution as to how I can build connections?

Thanks for the help!
Work the ramp somewhere for a couple of years, this is what all the experienced guys that have been there and done that kerp saying . Then get paid shit and work crappy schedules for another year and then after you might get in jazz or Porter .

No free rides .
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#5 Post by goleafsgo » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:11 pm

7507 wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:55 am
formercarsalesperson wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:11 am
Hello all,

I was wondering how I would go about building meaningful connections to be able to land my first job in this industry? The problem is that I don’t know anyone in aviation and I am a nobody in the industry. I am just worried that once my training is completed, I won’t have any connections to turn to for a job reference.

I know that a lot of you will suggest making connections with instructors, don’t burn bridges, etc... However, I am a stand-alone CPL/IR student at a flight school. I know 3 other students at the school, the school staff, and a few pilots I have talked to on instagram. That’s about it. This is largely because I work full time and only fly on weekends.

Another reason I ask this question, is because a lot of options to other people out there such as a “Jazz cadet, porter early connections, etc...” are simply not available to me as I did not attend an aviation college. Furthermore, I see a lot of students from various aviation colleges/universities taking part in events which gives them exposure to the industry, but again I am not eligible for those either as I am a stand alone CPL/IR students who attends a flight school. You ask why I didn’t attend an aviation college/university/integrated program? Money, I simply couldn’t afford it.

Anyone have a solution as to how I can build connections?

Thanks for the help!
Work the ramp somewhere for a couple of years, this is what all the experienced guys that have been there and done that kerp saying . Then get paid shit and work crappy schedules for another year and then after you might get in jazz or Porter .

No free rides .
When I worked the ramp a few years ago I was treated well, and got paid a livable wage and had a set schedule that rarely changed. You just need to find the good companies and the not so good companies.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#6 Post by Alcoholism » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:37 pm

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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#7 Post by TheRealMcCoy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:06 pm

Apply to every single entry level operator out there and follow up with a phone call to every one of them.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#8 Post by YBW-Kid » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 am

Get a job on the airport in general aviation - any job. Not at the airline terminal - but at the general aviation side of the airport. Keep your head down and do a great job and be friendly with everyone. Get to know people and and ask lots of questions when appropriate. The good people in the industry will notice you and ask you what your story is. Because they like you, they will want to give you a boost when they can. Be patient and one of those good people will eventually reach out to you and get you on your way. This industry is all about the connections you make when your humble.

Forget about this so called pilot shortage. As another post demonstrated- its an experienced pilot shortage. Everything else is a marketing ploy by the flying schools to get you in the door with promises of skipping all the heavy lifting all good pilots will always need to achieve success. Yes the industry has accelerated and a very few skip the hard work and find themselves in a B1900D or Q400 right seat right out class. With no PIC time good luck getting the times required for an ATPL at the same accelerated rate. I believe they will be surpassed by the pilots who did some heavy lifting and built a good foundation of skills and PIC time and built personal connections along they way.

Have fun doing it and take lots of pictures of your adventures.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#9 Post by Lightchop » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:03 am

YBW-Kid wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 am
Get a job on the airport in general aviation - any job. Not at the airline terminal - but at the general aviation side of the airport. Keep your head down and do a great job and be friendly with everyone. Get to know people and and ask lots of questions when appropriate. The good people in the industry will notice you and ask you what your story is. Because they like you, they will want to give you a boost when they can. Be patient and one of those good people will eventually reach out to you and get you on your way. This industry is all about the connections you make when your humble.

Forget about this so called pilot shortage. As another post demonstrated- its an experienced pilot shortage. Everything else is a marketing ploy by the flying schools to get you in the door with promises of skipping all the heavy lifting all good pilots will always need to achieve success. Yes the industry has accelerated and a very few skip the hard work and find themselves in a B1900D or Q400 right seat right out class. With no PIC time good luck getting the times required for an ATPL at the same accelerated rate. I believe they will be surpassed by the pilots who did some heavy lifting and built a good foundation of skills and PIC time and built personal connections along they way.

Have fun doing it and take lots of pictures of your adventures.

Or he can be a man/woman and hit the road and find a flying job.

Also the college thing is what it is but these days guys are upgrading right as their seniority allows after being hired with 250 hours. There's two in the last month who hit two years and got the upgrade as soon as they were able to hold it. No one bypassed them. Two years is more than enough time to fly 1300 hours and do some PICUS.

Either way, OP.... pack your car and go shake hands. Northern Manitoba and NWO are good places to go. If your can look into NorthWright. That's one of the fastest places you'll find yourself in not only a plane but moving into a twin turbine very quickly.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#10 Post by rookiepilot » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:14 am

Lightchop wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:03 am
YBW-Kid wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 am
Get a job on the airport in general aviation - any job. Not at the airline terminal - but at the general aviation side of the airport. Keep your head down and do a great job and be friendly with everyone. Get to know people and and ask lots of questions when appropriate. The good people in the industry will notice you and ask you what your story is. Because they like you, they will want to give you a boost when they can. Be patient and one of those good people will eventually reach out to you and get you on your way. This industry is all about the connections you make when your humble.

Have fun doing it and take lots of pictures of your adventures.

Or he can be a man/woman and hit the road and find a flying job.
So some positive advice from YBW is offset by this kind of sarcastic comment, to someone new seeking advice. I saw no complaining in the OP's question, only a desire for advice.

You're a real piece of work Porkchop. Well done. Must have made to the top of your little snivelling world.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#11 Post by digits_ » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:25 am

Or browse through the job ads: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=127516
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#12 Post by Lightchop » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:14 pm

rookiepilot wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:14 am
Lightchop wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:03 am
YBW-Kid wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 am
Get a job on the airport in general aviation - any job. Not at the airline terminal - but at the general aviation side of the airport. Keep your head down and do a great job and be friendly with everyone. Get to know people and and ask lots of questions when appropriate. The good people in the industry will notice you and ask you what your story is. Because they like you, they will want to give you a boost when they can. Be patient and one of those good people will eventually reach out to you and get you on your way. This industry is all about the connections you make when your humble.

Have fun doing it and take lots of pictures of your adventures.

Or he can be a man/woman and hit the road and find a flying job.
So some positive advice from YBW is offset by this kind of sarcastic comment, to someone new seeking advice. I saw no complaining in the OP's question, only a desire for advice.

You're a real piece of work Porkchop. Well done. Must have made to the top of your little snivelling world.
What, so I advocate for flying jobs out of school? Not "some job, any job in GA then make connections and maybe someone will find pity on you." That won't get you anywhere, well maybe it will but it will take a lot longer to get anywhere in your career.

The sooner anyone who wants to fly, goes out and hits the road.. shakes hands and goes in person to all the 703 jobs around the sooner they will be flying an airplane and getting paid.

It's not 2003 anymore.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#13 Post by HiFlyChick » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:50 pm

YBW-Kid wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:22 am
Get a job on the airport in general aviation - any job. Not at the airline terminal - but at the general aviation side of the airport. Keep your head down and do a great job and be friendly with everyone. Get to know people and and ask lots of questions when appropriate. The good people in the industry will notice you and ask you what your story is. Because they like you, they will want to give you a boost when they can. Be patient and one of those good people will eventually reach out to you and get you on your way. This industry is all about the connections you make when your humble.

Forget about this so called pilot shortage. As another post demonstrated- its an experienced pilot shortage. Everything else is a marketing ploy by the flying schools to get you in the door with promises of skipping all the heavy lifting all good pilots will always need to achieve success. Yes the industry has accelerated and a very few skip the hard work and find themselves in a B1900D or Q400 right seat right out class. With no PIC time good luck getting the times required for an ATPL at the same accelerated rate. I believe they will be surpassed by the pilots who did some heavy lifting and built a good foundation of skills and PIC time and built personal connections along they way.

Have fun doing it and take lots of pictures of your adventures.
That sounds like some good sound advice, YBW-Kid - people really underestimate the power of doing a good job no matter where you are working. The young guys and gals around the hangar are the ones that, after they've finished their assigned tasks, find ways to help out other people, or make their own work by cleaning up, etc. Jobs around a hangar/FBO are never done - you can always tidy, clean, whatever. The mistake that a lot of "youngsters" make is that they do exactly what has been asked of them, and then stand around drinking coffee. The ones I was most impressed with where guys that saw that the snow had built up around the doorway and the snow guy was still clearing the ramp, so they grabbed a shovel and did the job without being asked. At the company I worked at, hiring was always done based on integrity, work ethic and general likability (it's a small cockpit after all).

Experience is great, but I can recall one guy in particular who talked to one of the company's owners and was told that there was probably/possibly something, but ask _____. He promptly went to the guy and told him that the owner said there was a job. When he was told that there wasn't anything right at that time, he wigged out at the hiring guy, yelling and treating him very disrespectfully. Little did the ego-maniac realize that the "hiring guy" was co-owner of the company but just wasn't the out-front guy. Had he just said something like "OK, thanks for your time - please keep me in mind", when the job came up a few months after that, he would've had a good shot at it, but not only did he lose any chance at that job (and indeed any job a that company), but if anyone locally asked about the guy, he was given the facts about his temper. The aviation world can be a very small community sometimes
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#14 Post by digits_ » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:32 pm

A story I've written down here before, but if you cold call companies, chances are, another pilot will answer the phone. They are not out "to get you". They want to help you, as much as they can. So if they say the chief pilot is not available, then he's probably not available. If we ask you to email a resume instead, then that does not mean we are trying to get rid of you, but you should email a resume.

A few years ago, 3 pilots cold called the company I was working at. I answered the phone, as I was doing a bit of everything. The owner/chief pilot was not available at that time and that there were no vacancies at that time. I told all 3 pilots to send in a resume. From the short conversation we had, 2 of them would have the required experience to be hired if there were any openings. They were also annoyed they had to talk to me instead of the chief pilot. The only guy who sent in a resume, was the guy who did not have the required experience (something major, like no Canadian license, I don't remember the exact details). The other 2 didn't bother. A week later one of our pilots left. If we had those 2 resumes on file, they would have been invited for an interview. They didn't want to go through the big trouble of emailing a resume, so that didn't work out.

So if employees of a company tell you to email, phone or visit a certain person: DO IT!
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#15 Post by YBW-Kid » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:33 pm

[/quote]
It's not 2003 anymore.
[/quote]

All it takes is a serious threat to the industry similar to Sept 11 and it's back to 1983.

The poster asked for advice. Please feel free to offer your advice, what worked for you. But running down other posters advice speaks volumes to the legitimacy of your advice. I hope the original poster learns there are all types in this industry as clearly demonstrated on this forum. A great pilot learns from everyone he/she fly's or interacts with. Fill your flight bag with all the good habits and methods you observe from those you find yourself respecting. The other types - the show off's- the know-it-all's, the macho got the world by the tails will continually demonstrate their abilities or lack of by the simple act of opening their mouths.

Nobody here has all the answers for you- just idea's for you to draw from. Take the kernels from what you read here and see what works for you and what you feel comfortable doing. Maybe none of our advice fit your situation. Good luck.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#16 Post by sstocker31 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:49 pm

Nobody gets a job flying the computer.....get out there, be keen, introduce yourself, be courteous, sell yourself, and call back in a couple of weeks.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#17 Post by pianokeys » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:10 am

The only way to make meaningful connections is to work hard. Hard work gets noticed. Where should you do this hard work? At any aviation job you can get your hands on to start. Also, this forum seems to be fond of road trips, so try that. Apply to operators on a road trip, and make sure you go back and follow up on your application.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#18 Post by zipper » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:55 am

In today's job market there is no need for connections for a first job. Just start cold calling entry level operators.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#19 Post by HiFlyChick » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:10 pm

And whatever you do, don't try and BS people about how highly you think of their company if you don't know squat about their company! Used to be so annoying to me when someone would say about how highly they regarded my company and then proceeded to ask for a job that was totally ludicrous for the operation. Can't recall all of them, but the requests to be a flight attendant are some that come to mind. Seems like overkill for a Navajo....

I also was turned off by people who would send in resumes with typos, spelling errors or glaring grammatical blunders. Run it through spell-check and grammar-check and have a friend vet it for you, rather than look like someone who can't be bothered putting the effort in to represent themselves well.
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Re: How do I make connections to land that firsts job?

#20 Post by valleyboy » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:53 am

Nothing has changed it only is happening more often. No matter how many road trips, phone calls or emails it still boils down to timing. Right place at the right time. As a chief pilot I always went back to current resumes and did phone interviews. People need to realize getting a chief pilot's attention can also be detrimental. I have dismissed more than one off the list for that one. A lot promote road trips. These really do very little in the off season and only good if you are willing to be a grunt, dock hand which very rarely put you behind the controls. Dropping in on chief pilots, again unless there is a vacancy you are just a face amongst many that chief pilots see everyday. As a foot note as well, there is no pilot shortage when it comes to new shinny licenses. The training mills are turning you out and blowing smoke up your ass, as you are now finding out. The shortage lies in the 1000 hr pilot for 703 operators and goes up from there for 704 and 705.

The first jobs are there but we seem to be in a slow down now since people like JAZZ are not hiring as many. This is likely because they are at a bottleneck in training and availability of training staff but there are some wrinkles showing up in economics as well. I think the level 1 and 2 carriers will eventually do root structure assessments and focus on the Q400. Right now they are running them on routes that they were never designed for and customers don't like it. It also makes no sense to operate them on routes longer than 1.5 hours. They are a step backwards and should be kept on short routes.

This is the reality of the industry and while there is a good living to be made you need to accept the fact that good jobs are not necessarily with WS or AC and if you are not willing move or live just about anywhere (especially to get your ATP) and possibly live anywhere this is going to be more difficult for you, also marriage, steady girl friends and family life in general create more obstacles.

All I can suggest is keep sending those resumes and if you have an in on the existing pilot staff at a company keep in touch with them and when you hear of a vacancy up date everything right away. Consider want-a-be programs with companies that have something to offer. I don't like bonds but if a bond gets you experience that is useful you need to figure out where it would put you are completion.
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