SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
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SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
ok folks, a few people have asked me for tips on resources and what to study. Because I received so much help here, I'd like to give back by writing a fairly lengthy (but by no means complete) guide. I'd like to start with outlining my method:
YOU SHOULD KNOW that this exam is largely focused on 704/705 (commuter and airline) operations and 703 (air taxi) is NOT on the exams.
First I read the AIM all the way through. Take it or leave it, it's a long read but you'll know generally speaking what is in there for later when you're trying to look things up to memorize. Takes some time as it is quite a technical read at times and at others very dry, but it's helpful to know what's in there well. Then I read the RCAF weather manual through. This is a more interested read and really quite necessary as much of the SAMRA is derived from it. It's about a day's worth of reading, the AIM perhaps a week if you are taking it on in the evenings.
I 1000000% recommend at least buying the Aerocourse books. They hugely steer you through what areas to study. I used them extensively. I read the topics first in the source documents, then read the Aerocourse books, memorized pretty much the entire CARs section, then began doing the questions until I had them all down 100%. This might even be enough to pass on its own, but really - you are about to try to become a professional pilot. You need to do better than just passing.
Any topic you don't get, you find the info is a little thin, you need to start googling, looking it up in books, wherever until you understand it well. Especially things like fire detection systems and how they work, different fuel gauges (float type vs capacitance), etc. which are not really covered in Aerocourse books. This is where the transport canada study guide will show you what to look at. If it's on that list, and you haven't found it in Aerocourse, start doing some research on it and compiling notes.
BEWARE. Aerocourse books are fantastic but contain a few key errors. Double check your CARs section against the ACTUAL CARs. Sometimes there is an "or" instead of an "and" or vice versa, which can totally change the meaning of a set of rules. Still an amazing resource though.
First of all, your first stop should be the TC study guide, here:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca ... P_690E.pdf
If you aren't sure if it's on the exam, check there.
Obviously, you need to have the CARs open on a tab pretty much at all times.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/acts-regulation ... 96-433.htm
The study guide will tell you what to focus on. Note that there are the main parts, and the standards which expand on them. If it has a 2 as the second number, it's a standard (you need to go to the right side of each part (ie part I, part IV) in the link above to find those. What is nifty is the same CAR number except with a 2 will bring you to its standard. For example, 705.25 is Fuel Requirements for airlines. 725.25 outlines the standards for this order (amplifies anything that needs it).
You should have the TC Ground de-icing document open to search for pertinent info on anything you need help with. "When in Doubt" is also very useful.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... nu-314.htm
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... u-1118.htm
This website has a great explanation of weight shift formula, point of no return, and CP. Make sure to use the formulas meant for multi engine with an engine failed.
https://canuckaviation.com/point-no-return-pnr/
if you're like me and you are military without a copy of civvie pubs, having a (semi) recent copy of the Cap Gen is useful. This also outlines a lot of key orders for departure and arrival rules, as well as LVOP an RVOP (very important to know when you can taxi etc)
http://www.phoenixaviation.ca/CAP GEN 05Jan2017.pdf
Some amazing sources for learning about weather reports:
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-cl ... casts.html (lays out all the standards - note that on a METAR a ceiling is the LOWER of either a 5 or more oktas of cloud, OR a surface obscuring layer that is 8 oktas ie fog and such must be 8/8 oktas to constitute a ceiling whereas cloud need only be 5+.
https://flightplanning.navcanada.ca/cgi ... Doc=wxsymb
here is a guide to understanding everything you need to about Sig Wx high charts from the source that produces them.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/binaries/c ... -guide.pdf
This document has a blurb that explains the link of freezing drizzle to snow grains, similar to freezing rain and ice pellets. You also need to understand the supercooled warm rain process.
http://www.navcanada.ca/EN/media/Public ... s-2-EN.pdf
A huge resource you should own is From the Ground Up. I hadn't looked at mine much since I was a teenager studying for my private license. I was shocked to see what an in-depth explanation of MANY things required for this exam were in there. If you are stumped, before you google or come to these forums, check your trusty FTGU.
Here is a guide on fire detection systems
http://okigihan.blogspot.com/2017/06/fi ... stems.html
Here is a guide on fuel measuring types
http://www.theairlinepilots.com/forum/v ... .php?t=931
If I think of more, I will add it to this thread.
If you have questions, please feel free to ask.
Work hard, don't underestimate this. Very doable. Remember, if you actually learn it, when you are faced with multiple choice you will certainly know it when you see it, and if not be able to narrow it to two choices. I was stumped by probably 5 questions total, passed both with 95% or greater. Study hard!
YOU SHOULD KNOW that this exam is largely focused on 704/705 (commuter and airline) operations and 703 (air taxi) is NOT on the exams.
First I read the AIM all the way through. Take it or leave it, it's a long read but you'll know generally speaking what is in there for later when you're trying to look things up to memorize. Takes some time as it is quite a technical read at times and at others very dry, but it's helpful to know what's in there well. Then I read the RCAF weather manual through. This is a more interested read and really quite necessary as much of the SAMRA is derived from it. It's about a day's worth of reading, the AIM perhaps a week if you are taking it on in the evenings.
I 1000000% recommend at least buying the Aerocourse books. They hugely steer you through what areas to study. I used them extensively. I read the topics first in the source documents, then read the Aerocourse books, memorized pretty much the entire CARs section, then began doing the questions until I had them all down 100%. This might even be enough to pass on its own, but really - you are about to try to become a professional pilot. You need to do better than just passing.
Any topic you don't get, you find the info is a little thin, you need to start googling, looking it up in books, wherever until you understand it well. Especially things like fire detection systems and how they work, different fuel gauges (float type vs capacitance), etc. which are not really covered in Aerocourse books. This is where the transport canada study guide will show you what to look at. If it's on that list, and you haven't found it in Aerocourse, start doing some research on it and compiling notes.
BEWARE. Aerocourse books are fantastic but contain a few key errors. Double check your CARs section against the ACTUAL CARs. Sometimes there is an "or" instead of an "and" or vice versa, which can totally change the meaning of a set of rules. Still an amazing resource though.
First of all, your first stop should be the TC study guide, here:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/media/documents/ca ... P_690E.pdf
If you aren't sure if it's on the exam, check there.
Obviously, you need to have the CARs open on a tab pretty much at all times.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/acts-regulation ... 96-433.htm
The study guide will tell you what to focus on. Note that there are the main parts, and the standards which expand on them. If it has a 2 as the second number, it's a standard (you need to go to the right side of each part (ie part I, part IV) in the link above to find those. What is nifty is the same CAR number except with a 2 will bring you to its standard. For example, 705.25 is Fuel Requirements for airlines. 725.25 outlines the standards for this order (amplifies anything that needs it).
You should have the TC Ground de-icing document open to search for pertinent info on anything you need help with. "When in Doubt" is also very useful.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... nu-314.htm
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/ ... u-1118.htm
This website has a great explanation of weight shift formula, point of no return, and CP. Make sure to use the formulas meant for multi engine with an engine failed.
https://canuckaviation.com/point-no-return-pnr/
if you're like me and you are military without a copy of civvie pubs, having a (semi) recent copy of the Cap Gen is useful. This also outlines a lot of key orders for departure and arrival rules, as well as LVOP an RVOP (very important to know when you can taxi etc)
http://www.phoenixaviation.ca/CAP GEN 05Jan2017.pdf
Some amazing sources for learning about weather reports:
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-cl ... casts.html (lays out all the standards - note that on a METAR a ceiling is the LOWER of either a 5 or more oktas of cloud, OR a surface obscuring layer that is 8 oktas ie fog and such must be 8/8 oktas to constitute a ceiling whereas cloud need only be 5+.
https://flightplanning.navcanada.ca/cgi ... Doc=wxsymb
here is a guide to understanding everything you need to about Sig Wx high charts from the source that produces them.
https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/binaries/c ... -guide.pdf
This document has a blurb that explains the link of freezing drizzle to snow grains, similar to freezing rain and ice pellets. You also need to understand the supercooled warm rain process.
http://www.navcanada.ca/EN/media/Public ... s-2-EN.pdf
A huge resource you should own is From the Ground Up. I hadn't looked at mine much since I was a teenager studying for my private license. I was shocked to see what an in-depth explanation of MANY things required for this exam were in there. If you are stumped, before you google or come to these forums, check your trusty FTGU.
Here is a guide on fire detection systems
http://okigihan.blogspot.com/2017/06/fi ... stems.html
Here is a guide on fuel measuring types
http://www.theairlinepilots.com/forum/v ... .php?t=931
If I think of more, I will add it to this thread.
If you have questions, please feel free to ask.
Work hard, don't underestimate this. Very doable. Remember, if you actually learn it, when you are faced with multiple choice you will certainly know it when you see it, and if not be able to narrow it to two choices. I was stumped by probably 5 questions total, passed both with 95% or greater. Study hard!
Last edited by AirCanuck on Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
I havent given the exam , but this guide is pretty much all thats needed. Good Job !
- HansDietrich
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Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Nice post. I used Aerocourse when I wrote my AAs. I will disagree with you on one thing. Writing your SARON / SAMRA is not about how much you know (per say) but rather writing their type of exam. Since English is my 2nd language, it was very challenging for me to understand WTF they were trying to ask me. They're not very intuitive...
Das ist mir wurst...
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
you're right there. if you know your stuff like crazy, you're going to have a way easier time. But at the same time, you need to know how to apply it to their silly TC exam questioning style. I do think that any native English speaker anyway should be able to puzzle it out, but my friend who is also French needed his full 3.5 hours to do each one. That being said he ONLY used his Aerocourse and books. Did not touch another resource. I do not recommend that approach.HansDietrich wrote: ↑Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:39 pm Nice post. I used Aerocourse when I wrote my AAs. I will disagree with you on one thing. Writing your SARON / SAMRA is not about how much you know (per say) but rather writing their type of exam. Since English is my 2nd language, it was very challenging for me to understand WTF they were trying to ask me. They're not very intuitive...
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Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Dude,
Long time reader, first time poster. Thanks for the insight and resources.
Side question: What do you have for TT? What’s your Background?
Good info, much appreciated.
SP
Long time reader, first time poster. Thanks for the insight and resources.
Side question: What do you have for TT? What’s your Background?
Good info, much appreciated.
SP
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Hey dude,skypilot69 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 21, 2018 4:35 am Dude,
Long time reader, first time poster. Thanks for the insight and resources.
Side question: What do you have for TT? What’s your Background?
Good info, much appreciated.
SP
TT is around 1800, my background is I did a university aviation program and got a commercial multi-IFR, and have flown in the military since then
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Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Is there a reason this isn't a sticky? Every word in that post is worth its weight in gold.
I wouldn't call it Herculean, but the whole process is challenging with so much information out there which is not necessarily accurate. A lot of cross checking and cross referencing and tedious attention devoted to the semantics. That kinda sums up the whole thing.
Good luck to all.
I wouldn't call it Herculean, but the whole process is challenging with so much information out there which is not necessarily accurate. A lot of cross checking and cross referencing and tedious attention devoted to the semantics. That kinda sums up the whole thing.
Good luck to all.
Screw you hippies!!!!
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Just curious Homesick - did you read the entire 400+ page AIM to prep for your ATPL's, as Air Canuck strongly recommends, plus all of the other references, and would you say this was really necessary to succeed? Or could one prepare for and succeed on the ATPL's on a faster track, say in a couple of weeks, based on using only the standard exam preps, rather than over several months of intensive research, as Air Canuck did.
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
There's also a bunch of human factors/illusions questions on the new Saron. Also study the new regs concerning time off after dentist/local anaesthesia/scuba/etc from the AIM as the aerocourse have the old stuff
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
OK so that's 2 or 3 pages from the AIM. In your view daedalusx, is it really necessary to read the entire 400+ pages of the AIM to succeed?
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Depends on your background. I you've flown around a bit commercially and IFR, you probably know what you need to know and there is no need to read the AIM. I only used aerocourse and cap gen to study for mine. It was fine. Both SAMRA and SARON were heavily focused on weather. Not the interpreting metar part, but questions as "what kind of front is moving through here" "what kind of fog will form" "when the fog lifts, do you expect it to snow or rain". Pretty hard questions that I did not expect at all.
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Agree. It depends.digits_ wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:44 amDepends on your background. I you've flown around a bit commercially and IFR, you probably know what you need to know and there is no need to read the AIM. I only used aerocourse and cap gen to study for mine. It was fine. Both SAMRA and SARON were heavily focused on weather. Not the interpreting metar part, but questions as "what kind of front is moving through here" "what kind of fog will form" "when the fog lifts, do you expect it to snow or rain". Pretty hard questions that I did not expect at all.
I come from a programming background and have a few coding bibles.... No you wouldn't read and memorize the whole thing but you'd certainly reference it a bunch of times depending on experience and knowledge level.
When I did my As couple of years ago, I did them mainly with the aerocourse and if I was to come in a topic where I really was lacking (let's say that I couldn't remember gfa/taf/metar/prog charts validity and issuance time) then I would read the entire chapter in the AIM and trying to commit as much to memory so that the next week when I would do those practice questions again, I would either nail it or review the material again. I highly discourage from doing strictly questions and answers alone.
In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Totally agree with that last response, question and answers is not enough alone. Plus, ya know, you’ll need that knowledge for your job!
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Hello! Started studying for the A’s exams. I have the aerocourse books and air comman weather manual. Just wondering if anyone had some more insight, tips and pointers to get me focused not great at getting in to “study mode” I found this thread really good but anything else would be greatly appreciated. I also heard TC changed the exams last year. If anyone has insight on that that would be great as well. Thanks in advance!
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
I wrote SAMRA and SARON twice, and used two different methods to prepare for each time.
The first time was a few years ago. I was in no particular rush, so I dedicated about a month and a half to prepping. I used Aerocourse and Sharper Edge books, CARs, AIM and a variety of googling and supplemental resources. I took detailed notes. I made CARs mnemonics. The whole shebang. Did pretty well, got something like 93-94% range on both.
Then I left aviation for a bit due to lack of job prospects. My exams lapsed, and I had to rewrite as the industry picked up and I was interested in coming back. Things moved very quickly as I suddenly got a conditional offer and had to write the exams ASAP, so I only had about a week to prep for both. Of course, I kind of had an idea of what was on there since I wrote them before, but it's been a couple of years of not thinking about that stuff at all, so... you forget. The second time I went over my old notes and over Aerocourse/Sharper Edge at breakneck speed, cramming in the basics and omitting anything that took more than 10 minutes to look up and figure out. I just needed a pass. And I passed with about 77-78% this time. So you can take a shortcut if your goal is just to pass the test. It certainly wasn't a pleasant week though, and it's not a fun way to cram a bunch of stuff you don't understand very well into your head. I did go back and study some of the sections I was week on after I settled into my new job.
The first time was a few years ago. I was in no particular rush, so I dedicated about a month and a half to prepping. I used Aerocourse and Sharper Edge books, CARs, AIM and a variety of googling and supplemental resources. I took detailed notes. I made CARs mnemonics. The whole shebang. Did pretty well, got something like 93-94% range on both.
Then I left aviation for a bit due to lack of job prospects. My exams lapsed, and I had to rewrite as the industry picked up and I was interested in coming back. Things moved very quickly as I suddenly got a conditional offer and had to write the exams ASAP, so I only had about a week to prep for both. Of course, I kind of had an idea of what was on there since I wrote them before, but it's been a couple of years of not thinking about that stuff at all, so... you forget. The second time I went over my old notes and over Aerocourse/Sharper Edge at breakneck speed, cramming in the basics and omitting anything that took more than 10 minutes to look up and figure out. I just needed a pass. And I passed with about 77-78% this time. So you can take a shortcut if your goal is just to pass the test. It certainly wasn't a pleasant week though, and it's not a fun way to cram a bunch of stuff you don't understand very well into your head. I did go back and study some of the sections I was week on after I settled into my new job.
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Awesome thanks for the reply! I booked myself in for the aerocourse atpl seminar. With doing some studying now i am hoping the course really dials me in for all the small details in the weather and odds and ends that don’t quite make sense. It is a lot to take in expecially all the weather bull crap
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Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
I’ll read the whole AIM and if even 10% sticks I’ll consider myself better informed.
I don’t peruse through the books to pass exams. I do it to fill my knowledge gaps. And create new ones so that I can fill Them as well.
There’s the easy way to pass these things, and there’s the hard way. I’d like to think somewhere in between lies the sweet spot where you are aiming to clear a hurdle in your career and gain some insight into your daily ops.
Some questions are truly out of left field. Rather than rote memorization, I really think that understanding the basics would really help you in answering the seemingly unanswerable questions.
I don’t peruse through the books to pass exams. I do it to fill my knowledge gaps. And create new ones so that I can fill Them as well.
There’s the easy way to pass these things, and there’s the hard way. I’d like to think somewhere in between lies the sweet spot where you are aiming to clear a hurdle in your career and gain some insight into your daily ops.
Some questions are truly out of left field. Rather than rote memorization, I really think that understanding the basics would really help you in answering the seemingly unanswerable questions.
Screw you hippies!!!!
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
hi,
the '' Performance and Weight & Balance '' section of the Aerocourse is Saron or Samra?
the '' Performance and Weight & Balance '' section of the Aerocourse is Saron or Samra?
Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Based on TC's current ATPL Study and Reference Guide, this material is primarily SARON, although the dispatch limitations question is probably SAMRA.
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Re: SAMRA/SARON - my guide to studying
Mostly SARON but there was a few on the SAMRA as well. I just wrote last month