I can't think of a single case where a pilot came to work stoned.
The pilot of the Tindi Caravan crash in 2011 had THC in his system. TSB pointed to his "impairment" as a principle cause.
Personally I think that's debatable since he was known to be a regular consumer (thereby increasing his tolerance). More concerning to me was his .. running in IFR conditions and a history of poor pilot decision making with next to no company oversight at that time.
Exactly. that's this guy's legacy... No one will ever know if he was smoking between turns or the night before or the week before... Although he did register quite a high amount.
A lot of you fail to realize that through not fault of your own, you could be implicated in an accident with loss of life. If THC is registered in your blood because you're a casual smoker. Even if you showed up to work 'fit', be prepared to be financially/emotionally ruined. Don't think for a moment that management or the union will go to the bat when you get hit with that wrongful death lawsuit. It always amuses me when I fly with coworkers that are ridiculously rigid on SOP/AOM procedures and then brag about smoking weed on weekends and breaking the 12hr bottle to throttle on occassions.
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In twenty years time when your kids ask how you got into flying you want to be able to say "work and determination" not "I just kept taking money from your grandparents for type ratings until someone was stupid enough to give me a job"
CanadianEh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:25 pm
Policies are now being released for hospitals and they are not implementing any sort of ban. It's simply "do it on your own time, off the property, be fit for work and there's no problems". Perhaps these medical professionals have a better idea of the true effects of cannabis vs. The old boys in airline management and policing
I can't think of a single case where a pilot came to work stoned.
The pilot of the Tindi Caravan crash in 2011 had THC in his system. TSB pointed to his "impairment" as a principle cause.
Personally I think that's debatable since he was known to be a regular consumer (thereby increasing his tolerance). More concerning to me was his .. running in IFR conditions and a history of poor pilot decision making with next to no company oversight at that time.
Regular consumer.... With a history of poor decision making... who would have thought!?
CanadianEh wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:25 pm
Policies are now being released for hospitals and they are not implementing any sort of ban. It's simply "do it on your own time, off the property, be fit for work and there's no problems". Perhaps these medical professionals have a better idea of the true effects of cannabis vs. The old boys in airline management and policing
+1
Hmmm, the medical profession kills significantly more people annually than aviation. Doctors, nurses etc, should be banned also if this is the logic.
Even the time limit on the bottle to throttle is a bit over reaching in my opinion. (Not saying I don't follow the rules or have a problem with the booze) but if you show up with a BAC of 0.00 how could say someone is unfit for work? We are far from the most responsible and dangerous professions out there, (up there for sure) but yet we are one of the most regulated in our FREE TIME. Cops drink on the job, some even have criminal records yet still gainfully employed. Drs do the same and I'm sure judges and lawyers as well. Do you not need a medical to be an ATC and be licensed by TC? The military flies in civilian airspace at civilian airports would this not be a treat to civil aviation? If they have month off or more blast away but any other pilot? Would a military pilot never be eligible for a conversion or what if they have a civil licence already...
Dry Guy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:36 am
Air traffic controllers can use cannabis off-duty but are expected to be fit to work when they show up for their shifts.
N181CS wrote: ↑Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:53 pm
Even the time limit on the bottle to throttle is a bit over reaching in my opinion. (Not saying I don't follow the rules or have a problem with the booze) but if you show up with a BAC of 0.00 how could say someone is unfit for work? We are far from the most responsible and dangerous professions out there, (up there for sure) but yet we are one of the most regulated in our FREE TIME. Cops drink on the job, some even have criminal records yet still gainfully employed. Drs do the same and I'm sure judges and lawyers as well. Do you not need a medical to be an ATC and be licensed by TC? The military flies in civilian airspace at civilian airports would this not be a treat to civil aviation? If they have month off or more blast away but any other pilot? Would a military pilot never be eligible for a conversion or what if they have a civil licence already...
Military aviation in civil airspace is not civil aviation. We don’t follow CARs.
The 28 days is a practical ban on pot for military pilots. I don’t know too many people who can take 28 days off. Not that I have issues with the practical ban...
N181CS wrote: ↑Sun Oct 21, 2018 5:53 pm
Even the time limit on the bottle to throttle is a bit over reaching in my opinion. (Not saying I don't follow the rules or have a problem with the booze) but if you show up with a BAC of 0.00 how could say someone is unfit for work? We are far from the most responsible and dangerous professions out there, (up there for sure) but yet we are one of the most regulated in our FREE TIME. Cops drink on the job, some even have criminal records yet still gainfully employed. Drs do the same and I'm sure judges and lawyers as well. Do you not need a medical to be an ATC and be licensed by TC? The military flies in civilian airspace at civilian airports would this not be a treat to civil aviation? If they have month off or more blast away but any other pilot? Would a military pilot never be eligible for a conversion or what if they have a civil licence already...
Military pilot here. The 28 day is a blanket CF-wide policy, so for an aircrew to legally puff up as you say, one would have to light up a joint and use his entire yearly leave after that one joint before showing up for work. We treat it as a straight ban.
Totally hair splitting there fellas. I know the CF does not follow the CARs and most military pilots won't be sparking up any time soon. After coming back from a deployment depending on length I'm sure you can get 28 days without flight duty and when you only do a 100-300hours a year of flying that has to leave some down time?
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Last edited by N181CS on Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The fight over this is just getting started. The Calgary Police Association wants its members to be allowed to smoke off duty and is going through official channels to try to get their ban lifted.
You are flying to say Dubai, or maybe Shanghai. Long flight, fatiguing. Weathers not the best, conditions a bit tricky and you roll off the side of the runway into the grass. You know who doesn’t care about your “constitutional” right to get high? Authorities anywhere else in the world except perhaps Uruguay. They also aren’t going to be pleased if they find THC in your system. Do you guys really need to smoke weed that desperately? I mean there is even a guy in here arguing the 12 hour rule on booze is too stringent. Ridiculous.
If I have an 8am report time, can I not safely finish a single glass of wine with my spouse at 10:30pm before bed? Certainly breaks the 12 hour bottle-to-throttle rule.
That said, it's easy to give up if it is required for regulatory compliance.
I know nothing of pot, but I do wish that the rules be based on science. But we all know that science has no place in the fatigue regulations....
goingnowherefast wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:06 am
If I have an 8am report time, can I not safely finish a single glass of wine with my spouse at 10:30pm before bed? Certainly breaks the 12 hour bottle-to-throttle rule.
I dunno, man? As I advance in age, I find that any fluid intake after ~ 8pm pretty much consigns me to a 3:30 am pee break, and then a restless sleep thereafter!
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Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
yousoundfoolish wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:33 am
You are flying to say Dubai, or maybe Shanghai. Long flight, fatiguing. Weathers not the best, conditions a bit tricky and you roll off the side of the runway into the grass. You know who doesn’t care about your “constitutional” right to get high? Authorities anywhere else in the world except perhaps Uruguay. They also aren’t going to be pleased if they find THC in your system. Do you guys really need to smoke weed that desperately? I mean there is even a guy in here arguing the 12 hour rule on booze is too stringent. Ridiculous.
Oh man, I’m in Shanghai now?! Could’ve sworn I left the Beaver tied to the dock last night...
I think the real issue with cannabis is that one can’t test current level of impairment, so company’s issues a blanket ban on what can be tested. Which is the metabolized protiens of THC (THC being the physoactive component)
THC metabolizes into THC-COOH (which to my current knowledge is non-physoactive), so with current technology it’s safer to issue a blanket ban on how long the metabolized protiens stay in ones system untill there is a fast easy way to test for the actual THC levels (level of impairment) is devoleped! Then you may see a shift in cannabis policy’s!
Intresting to note Nav-Canada’s policy (ATC) on cannabis is to show up to work fit for duty (not impaired) and what they do in there own time is there responsibility
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:36 pm
Pot stocks.
Crushed today.
LOL!
That's just profit taking...they are still great businesses, it's just that the smart money got in there long ago and is getting out now. I guess I should have bought it when I saw their Gulfstream parked next to me on the ramp a few years ago, next to Costco's Gulfstream. Seems to be a good indicator of a business that is generating tons of cash.
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:36 pm
Pot stocks.
Crushed today.
LOL!
That's just profit taking...they are still great businesses, it's just that the smart money got in there long ago and is getting out now. I guess I should have bought it when I saw their Gulfstream parked next to me on the ramp a few years ago, next to Costco's Gulfstream. Seems to be a good indicator of a business that is generating tons of cash.
