Near Miss

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I'd Rather Be Flying
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Near Miss

Post by I'd Rather Be Flying »

More than likely, most pilots have experienced this problem:

What's with pilot's who report over one location and then are inevitably flying in another location?!! I had a near miss late yesterday afternoon because somebody either didn't care to report location and altitude properly (or not at all), or transmitted inaccurately.

I'd like to punch the pilot of that airplane because they almost caused an accident. :evil: Thankfully I kept my eyes outside and was able to spot the culprit just in time. :)

Just because they say they're there, does not mean that they are necessarily there!

Fly safe!!
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Jet Dog
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Post by Jet Dog »

I find after I transmit my location,.... I'm no longer at that spot, I just get further and further away...I think theres a problem with my plane.... :(
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ndb
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Post by ndb »

Anyone who flies VFR and relies on a radio is heading for trouble.

Not all aircraft have radios - yes, that's perfectly legal. Yours may die someday, too. The electrical system in your aircraft is probably 30 years old.

Plus, when it gets real busy, and you need the radio the most, is when it's least likely to work - transmissions get stepped on (love that squealing), mike buttons get stuck, etc.

Use your eyeballs, especially where there are unnatural concentrations of
aircraft, such as the extended runway centerline, and VORs.
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Post by oldtimer »

This happened to me. IFR in VFR on approach to CYLW. Tower is jabbering to somebody about calling over the turkey farm or some dumb place and join downwind. I'm on approach in the turbo dildo and join the party late. We get a TCAS TA. (TCAS 1). Can't find the traffic but a climbing right turn turns the TA off. Finally, we spot the traffic, a single otter downwind, to the left and below us but close enough that TCAS did not like it. Tower never mentioned it to us because the otter pilot had us in sight. :o The TCAS screamed it's timely warning and I'm peed off. No danger to us but if Tower had mentioned the traffic, we would not have been surprised about the TCAS warning. It only takes milliseconds before you fall in love with TCAS. :o
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BAH!!!
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Post by BAH!!! »

Speaking of near misses, check these videos out. Pretty wild stuff.
Be sure to watch the last one and listen to how poorly the ATC deals with the situation. :shock: :!:

-you'll need real player to load them.

http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2000/incursi ... _video.htm
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Post by twinpratts »

Tell me about it! Those morons who don't turn on their transponders in uncontrolled Air Space... the world doesn't revolve around you- we need your transponder on for the TCAS to work!
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Post by . . »

damn, i hate realplayer.
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CAL
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Post by CAL »

What are the parameters on the typical tcas system?...I mean how far away.....etc.

I dont have one:) I guess when you only do 100kts you have some time to alter course
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Post by ndb »

You are not legally required under VFR in uncontrolled airspace to turn on the transponder. I personally know several pilots who do not turn their transponders on when they don't have to so Transport can't use it against them.
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Post by CAL »

I watched the videos.....I cant believe the controller....its bad enough that the crew in the 57 are lost...but they also cant see. She was just blasting everyone, that doesnt help. I have never heard a controller in Canada conduct themself like that....does anyone else find that disturbing?...or funny :shock:
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jimmyjazz
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Post by jimmyjazz »

about the transponder thing in uncontrolled airspace you need to remember that if your on a uncontrolled air route there could be alot of vfr around even if you are ifr example ywg yrl. When I was in this area of our 7 ac only one had a transponder and one was nordo (most of the time). On a related note alot of bush guys get annoyed when someone makes a call that they are x miles west of some airport thinking that they should know all the lakes. But we need to remember that their maps don't have lakes and they don't make 20 or 30 mile hops they are just trying to help us out especially when they make their :lol: calls on 22.8 since it's not even an official frequency.
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Post by Right Seat Captain »

My favorite calls to hear when I'm VFR is "This is XXX currently 86.4 miles East of Montreal." That's really useful to me with my VNC that has Montreal on another fold.
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RB211
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Post by RB211 »

ndb wrote:You are not legally required under VFR in uncontrolled airspace to turn on the transponder. I personally know several pilots who do not turn their transponders on when they don't have to so Transport can't use it against them.
The flip side of that, of course, is a TCAS equipped a/c can't 'see' you with it turned off. I guess then if you become a pile of smoking wreckage you don't care what TC says/does.
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Post by ndb »

If it's ok to fly an aircraft without a transponder (like a cub that has no electrical system, or maybe an ultralight) why is it not ok to fly a 172 down in the weeds with the transponder turned off? What's the difference? Either way there's no transponder.

If I understand you correctly, you are implictly proposing that every aircraft in Canada must have a transponder/encoder and of course an electrical system to feed it power. You're going to be really popular with the antique, gilder and ultralight guys.

Are you aware of the systemic limitations of mode C? It simply breaks down under heavy load. For example, the NOTAM for KOSH during the last week of July, which has probably the highest traffic density in the world, specifies "mode C off".

When you most need them, your fancys toys are going to break down.

Do you remember the mode S implementation disaster 10 years or so ago? Mode C is a piece of junk that they tried to get rid of, and couldn't.
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Post by RB211 »

ndb wrote:If it's ok to fly an aircraft without a transponder (like a cub that has no electrical system, or maybe an ultralight) why is it not ok to fly a 172 down in the weeds with the transponder turned off? What's the difference? Either way there's no transponder. ...

.
The difference is choosing not to use a piece of kit that could be of great benefit as opposed to not having one.

Certainly everything has its limitations, but I found it very helpful to fit a faster moving DH8 into a traffic pattern with said 172's when I could 'see' them on TCAS b4 I had visual contact.

I did not say every a/c should have a transponder, please don't put words in my mouth. By your argument, why not turn off your radio, some a/c don't have them anyway?
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Post by Cat Driver »

I am appalled at the ignorance that is evident in this discussion.

I certainly hope that anyone who thinks that having a working transponder and does not turn it on is not a licenced pilot.

And if you are of the mind set that stealthing to avoid detection is the way to go I would not want to be in your airspace.

Cat Driver:
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Post by Right Seat Captain »

Cat Driver wrote:I am appalled at the ignorance that is evident in this discussion.

I certainly hope that anyone who thinks that having a working transponder and does not turn it on is not a licenced pilot.

And if you are of the mind set that stealthing to avoid detection is the way to go I would not want to be in your airspace.

Cat Driver:
I absoluitely agree. But if your transponder is not working, ie reading 500 feet off, or it's certification is out of date, you should keep it on mode A.
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Post by Disco Stu »

The transponder thing is especially important in YTH where the radar is secondary surveillance ONLY. If you are inbound IFR, YWG centre can't even advise you of VFR traffic if they don't have their transponders on.

Skyward's piston single's and various choppers are guilty of this!
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ndb
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Post by ndb »

Somebody please explain what is the externally-visible difference between no transponder, and a turned-off one?

If people feel so strongly about the necessity of a functioning transponder, they must logically then think that the people flying without one pose as great a danger as someone who turns theirs off, because the effect is exactly the same.

Your opinions contradicts the regulations, which do not require transponders to be turned on, or even to be installed.

High tech toys are great, but becoming dependent upon them is most definitely not.
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Post by RB211 »

ndb wrote:Somebody please explain what is the externally-visible difference between no transponder, and a turned-off one?

If people feel so strongly about the necessity of a functioning transponder, they must logically then think that the people flying without one pose as great a danger as someone who turns theirs off, because the effect is exactly the same.

Your opinions contradicts the regulations, which do not require transponders to be turned on, or even to be installed.

High tech toys are great, but becoming dependent upon them is most definitely not.
There is no external difference.

The 'danger' is the same. However, if your a/c is not so equipped you are not choosing to be less visible to other a/c.

Just because the regs don't mandate the use of one, is an ignorant excuse for not using it if it is functional. It is an added safety feature.

Yes high tech equipment is great, but using it as an enhancement tool is not the same as dependence.

I have to ask what someone is doing that has them concerned TC will use the transponder info against them. They must either be intentionally violating the regs or just too ignorant of them to know they are in violation.
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