Near Miss

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

I'd Rather Be Flying
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 9:24 am
Location: This island earth.

Post by I'd Rather Be Flying »

The majority of flying that I do is in uncontrolled airspace. When I'm out flying I always have the transponder turned on and I teach my students to do the same (and explain to them why it is important).
---------- ADS -----------
 
"Come down, your head is in the sky, feet on the ground...come down."
RB211
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:21 pm

Post by RB211 »

Good job, IRBF. :D

ndb: Instead of trying to argue with you why I think one shold be using the transponder, maybe you can just provide a good logical reason why one shouldn't be using it. ( Other than, it is not required, of course.) :?:

Failing that, perhaps we can get you hooked up with 'I'd Rather be Flying' for some instruction on airmanship.
---------- ADS -----------
 
sakism
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 7:32 am

Post by sakism »

Flying without your transponder on is stupid.

It's like the people you see driving around with just their fog lights on - What the hell? Are they saving gas?

However, I think the point that others are trying to make is that there are people who assume that their TCAS will alert them to any aircraft. They don't seem to realize that some aircraft don't have transponders. I have even had another aircraft advise us that our transponder was not working - they hadn't even considered that we might not have one.

Complacency on this issue is just as, if not more, dangerous than not turning your transponder on. Use your eyes - that's what we've got them for.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ndb
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:00 pm

Post by ndb »

I presume it has not occurred to anyone here that sometimes, people own aircraft. Those people make decisions about their aircraft, for example about what equipment and avionics they install.

Have I lost anyone yet? I''ll try not to tire your lips out too much.

If am to understand the rocket scientists here, they think it's ok for a guy who owns say a 172 to not install a transponder and encoder.

But if he does install a transponder and encoder, he's some sort of reckless criminal if he doesn't leave it on all the time, so the airline pilots don't have to bother looking out the window, and can make smartass remarks to ATC about "got 'em on the fishfinder!"

The result either way is exactly same, and perfectly legal: the owner/pilot decides whether or not he wants to transmit mode C info.

Your position is inconsistent, and is in contradiction with the regulations.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Right Seat Captain
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 1237
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:51 pm
Location: Various/based CYOW

Post by Right Seat Captain »

ndb, perhaps you missed the Airmanship class when you got your pilot's licence, if you have one. Regardless of what the regs say, its always a good idea to practise good airmanship. If turning on a transponder installed in your aircraft makes you safer, as well as those around you, why not turn it on. Do yuo have a reason for NOT turning it on?

Sure everyone should still be looking out, but what if you miss it? Too bad you don't have the transponder as a backup to help you find the aircraft you can't see below you. And I for one do not wish to add unnecessary risk to my own life in a C172, for no good reason, nor do I wish to add risk to the 300 innocent passengers on board an airline.

I'm not saying install a transponder in every aircraft, but please explain why you wouldn't turn yours on if you have one installed?
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Cat Driver
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 18921
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm

Post by Cat Driver »

ndb :

Look at it this way, larger faster airplanes are equipped with TCAS for identification of other aircraft that may be a hazzard to them.

Also these aircraft fly considerably faster than light aircraft if you have a mode C transponder and it is on it gives the crew in the faster airplane a proximity warning and your position in relation to their aircraft..

Remember they are most likely carring a load of passengers, if your mother was on their airplane would you not want to make her flight as safe as you could?

I hope that will give you another look at the transponder issue.

Cat Driver:
---------- ADS -----------
 
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
RB211
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:21 pm

Post by RB211 »

Good Lord, ndb! Are you this thick really, or just being contrary for fun?

I haven't read where anyone has said everyone that owns an airplane must install a transponder. All anyone has said is, if the transponder is installed, why not use it? Having TCAS only assists me and others visually locate traffic more quickly, that seems like a good thing for all concerned. No? :?:

You still have not given one good reason to not use a transponder if installed. Surely, with a stance as uwavering as yours, you must have a good reason for your position. Please enlighten us.

If you cannot provide some logical reasoning, then I can only conclude you lack any level of airmanship. I find that disturbing.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ndb
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:00 pm

Post by ndb »

I'll try to keep this simple: there is this arbitrary concept of "airspace" that Transport (actually Nav) Canada applies to the "atmosphere".

In some "classes" of "airspace", a mode C transponder is legally required. In those "classes" of "airspace" airline pilots don't have to look outside the window, and get to make smart remarks to ATC about their "nintendo". How cute!

However, in other "classes" of "airspace" a mode C transponder is not legally required to be turned on, or even installed. In these "classes" of "airspace" it might be a good idea for airline pilots to either look out the windows, or if they have become so heavily dependent upon their high tech toys that they are helpless without them, perhaps they should just not go there.

Now, everything I have said so far on this topic, to the best of my knowledge, is:

1) truthful
2) consistent
3) in complete accordance with the regulations

which is a standard likely far exceeding anything else you may read on the internet today.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Right Seat Captain
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 1237
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 7:51 pm
Location: Various/based CYOW

Post by Right Seat Captain »

ndb, you just don't get it do you?

If your airmanship is this bad, I really do hope you're not a pilot. I'd be afraid to learn of all your bad habits. You must realize that safety for yourself and others goes beyond just following the CARs. TC tried to make the CARs so they can be open to all sorts of situations and people, such as aircraft without a transponder on board. But its people like you who abuse those priviliges that force regs to be made being more specific, such as transponders being required on board all aircraft with no exception, and being turned on.

Airmanship is the practising of safe flying, to yourself, your passengers, and those around you. It involved minimizing risk as much as practically possible, which sometimes involves going above and beyond the regs, especially if it only involves flipping one switch. Being curteous to others to help them, and make their flight more safe is also involved in airmanship. Next time I cross you on a taxiway at night, I'll make sure to keep my landing and taxi lights on so you get blinded. I mean why not? There's no reg telling me I have to turn it off!
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Cat Driver
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 18921
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm

Post by Cat Driver »

This guy is just a wind up artist, no one could be this ignorant.

At least I hope he's not serious?? :cry:

Cat
---------- ADS -----------
 
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Benwa
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:28 pm
Location: CYQB

Post by Benwa »

TROLL ALERT ! TROLL ALERT !
---------- ADS -----------
 
Benwa
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:28 pm
Location: CYQB

Post by Benwa »

Come on NDB, give us a break. If you don't want to turn your transponder ON... well DON'T ! just keep it off. But keep in mind that it would be a lot safer if it was ON. That's it.

Safety should always come first in aviation. If you don't understand that, I sure hope you'll never fly close to me.

I don't even understand why I'm typing this... you're a major freak.
---------- ADS -----------
 
ndb
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:00 pm

Post by ndb »

I'll say this for you, Benwa: you've got balls!
---------- ADS -----------
 
Benwa
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 848
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:28 pm
Location: CYQB

Post by Benwa »

Thanks for the update !
Last time I checked they were still there !
If you are refering to the fact that I post my true identity on this forum, well that's not having balls. It's just standing by my opinions. If you don't like what I write, just give a call, we'll talk this through.

Benoit Dufresne
---------- ADS -----------
 
RB211
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 283
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:21 pm

Post by RB211 »

Cat Driver wrote:This guy is just a wind up artist, no one could be this ignorant.

At least I hope he's not serious?? :cry:

Cat
I am going to chose to agree with you there Cat. That level of ingnorance would be difficult to comprehend. :?

Troll alert is likely indeed. :x If not then it is Moron alert!!
---------- ADS -----------
 
JayVee
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 213
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:24 pm

Post by JayVee »

I had a similar debate on another forum a couple years ago with a poster named "me."
The comments from ndb are almost verbatim to those from "me."
Apparently ndb feels threatened by airline pilots and their jargon, and He/she can't understand the concept of safety, and associates the use of technology with boys playing with high-tech toys.
There is no doubt in my mind that ndb is a disgruntled troll. Maybe he's the guy who drives on the freeway at night with his headlights off.
To those who care about your safety and the safety of others, please use your transponder if you have one.
To ndb, flame away arsehole. :roll:
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Panama Jack
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3232
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2004 8:10 am
Location: The Sandbox

Post by Panama Jack »

Whatever NDB's agenda is, it doesn't surprise me. I've met people who are this conflictive on purpose-- they won't do it because, dammit, I don't have to!!! These are the same people who get steamed when the FAA or Transport "regulate common sense," which is the next thing that we could expect following an accident with a TCAS equipped aircraft and an airplane that had his transponder turned off.

On another subject, I find it annoying and useless when local pilots make position calls like "over Fred's Chicken Farm at Two point Five." It would be really helpful to us peasants from out of town if position could be given in reference to a charted landmark (like the airport, a VOR or an NDB)-- ie. "10 miles southwest at two thousand five hundred inbound for landing".
---------- ADS -----------
 
ndb
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:00 pm

Post by ndb »

I find it annoying and useless when IFR pilots make position calls referring to obscure waypoints like "over XTZFR at Two point Five." It would be really helpful to us peasants not from out of town if position could be given in reference to a charted landmark (like the airport, a VOR or an NDB)-- ie. "10 miles southwest at two thousand five hundred inbound for landing"
---------- ADS -----------
 
desksgo
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2850
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:05 pm
Location: Toy Poodle Town, Manitoba
Contact:

Post by desksgo »

This is one of the most brutal conversations I've seen...shame on us for responding to such stupidity :D This guy clearly has his head so far up his arse that he isn't going to hear us.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
Cat Driver
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 18921
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm

Post by Cat Driver »

The scary part is whoever it is seems to know something about flying....

Good God, can you imagine there actually could be someone like that flying somewhere near you?

If that were a dog I would have it put down due to its being to sick to cure.

Cat
---------- ADS -----------
 
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”