Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

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Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by rookiepilot » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:42 am

Funniest fiction I've read today. (On Via tender).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/via-ra ... -1.4922638

"Quebec premier demands Trudeau government intervene".

Or else? They will cut off my cheese curd supply?
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by daedalusx » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:15 pm

Has BBD ever delivered a train order on time in the last 10 years ?
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:58 pm

Hey they won a contract.....for Montreal. :prayer:

https://www.bombardier.com/en/media/new ... -year=2002
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by confusedalot » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:00 pm

Bombardier has in fact turned into a joke. Hard for me to say since I live in Montreal, but hey, gotta call a spade a spade.
I could not believe how their current little jerk of ceo, who I actually met as a Pratt and Whitney employee, would play the political poker game and hold the taxpayer over a barrel for a welfare bailout. Same tactics at Pratt.
Pretty sick, it is what it is.
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by rookiepilot » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:29 pm

For The BBD fan club....again.

Why not take the next nice pile of money you would see flushed down the toilet at BBD, and give it to a successful company like Viking, and help them become more successful?

There is a principle there.
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Zaibatsu » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:59 am

Probably because Viking doesn’t have the industrial capacity or the supplier networks or the existing market capital or the market feelers.

BBD might be mismanaged, but there still isn’t another company like it in Canada, and it’s not something that can be thrown up overnight courtesy of the taxpayer.

You might as well give it to the guy who has some computer renderings and a vision to built the Super Arrow in Canada. All he needs is everything and billions upon billions of dollars.
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by xsbank » Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:24 pm

Excuse me but who do you think kept all those de Havilland things going all those years? Viking didn't do any of the hard work to get that junk certified. I'm very happy for Viking, I would have liked to get involved with them when I was a pup; just don't kiss off Bombardier because they learned to play the game better than pretty much every other company. If your Daddy offers you a $100 and the car for a night, do you say no because you think there's no money for your sister?
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Cessna 180 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:07 pm

xsbank wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:24 pm
Excuse me but who do you think kept all those de Havilland things going all those years? Viking didn't do any of the hard work to get that junk certified. I'm very happy for Viking, I would have liked to get involved with them when I was a pup; just don't kiss off Bombardier because they learned to play the game better than pretty much every other company. If your Daddy offers you a $100 and the car for a night, do you say no because you think there's no money for your sister?
Bombardier is more like your dad gave you $100 and the car to get pizza for your family, and then you pocketed the $100 as a bonus for all your hard work, then used his credit card to pay for the pizza.
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by YYZSaabGuy » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:04 am

Cessna 180 wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 10:07 pm
xsbank wrote:
Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:24 pm
Excuse me but who do you think kept all those de Havilland things going all those years? Viking didn't do any of the hard work to get that junk certified. I'm very happy for Viking, I would have liked to get involved with them when I was a pup; just don't kiss off Bombardier because they learned to play the game better than pretty much every other company. If your Daddy offers you a $100 and the car for a night, do you say no because you think there's no money for your sister?
Bombardier is more like your dad gave you $100 and the car to get pizza for your family, and then you pocketed the $100 as a bonus for all your hard work, then used his credit card to pay for the pizza.
And then, to complete the analogy, wrapped the car around a tree on the way home from the pizzeria...
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by ehv8oar » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:28 am

Then that tree fell on the powerlines and cut off the power to the whole city
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by cdnpilot77 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:45 am

And then all of dads friends praised him for ordering his family some pizza...

<Insert slow clap>
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Gino Under » Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:59 am

Lots of interesting comments AGAIN, about Bombardier.
So, do we buy Canadian, or not? Do we support Canadian businesses, products and industries, or not?
The vocal minority have all but killed our oil and gas industry because they think we should all be in electric cars, cycling, or using windmill power.
Not only that, but what Federal Minister would be stupid enough to advocate NOT favoring a Canadian company over other bids?
Have we lost our minds???

Le Canada anglais a besoin de se réveiller. Quelle chose stupide à faire???

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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Donald » Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:51 pm

Gino, what benefit has Bombardier provided for the Canada located outside of Quebec?

What benefit has Alberta’s oil and gas provided for the Canada outside of Alberta?
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by telex » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:06 pm

Gino Under wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:59 am
Lots of interesting comments AGAIN, about Bombardier.
So, do we buy Canadian, or not? Do we support Canadian businesses, products and industries, or not?
The vocal minority have all but killed our oil and gas industry because they think we should all be in electric cars, cycling, or using windmill power.
Not only that, but what Federal Minister would be stupid enough to advocate NOT favoring a Canadian company over other bids?
Have we lost our minds???

Le Canada anglais a besoin de se réveiller. Quelle chose stupide à faire???

Gino Under
You spelled Quebec wrong.
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Gino Under » Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:26 pm

So, why are Canadians in New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Quebec, Ontario and B.C. blocking the pipeline??? I'm a Quebec resident in favour of a pipeline to the East coast. Right now, it's Saudi oil being imported to the East coast and everyone from Nfld, to the Manitoba border is pumping Saudi oil into their vehicles. With the resources we have and the regs we have, why isn't that oil Canadian oil???? We send our oil to the U.S. to be refined and they sell it back to us at market prices while our oil companies get screwed by the Americans and the Greenies in Canada. Something's out of whack team. But, if you want to blame Quebec ...

Wait a sec, you've only mentioned Quebec. Yes. The politics in this province is a joke. Mr. Dressup is going to get skinned by Quebec (if not the entire country) in the next Fed election. He's hated in this province. Every 4 years there seems to be someone to blame and therefore oust. Legault should have stayed with Air Transat. He's assembled a government of separatists under the CAQ banner. English Canada has rightfully developed a dislike for this province but to be honest, there are some areas where I think it is completely unwarranted. If you think Bombardier is useless and incompetent, just count the number of Dash 8s and CRJs whizzing around. Think about the residual companies that benefit. Trains? It shouldn't take much of an effort to find out what role Bombardier plays in the world of rail. (The TTC debacle was pretty much a 50-50 fuccup, so if you blame BBD, you have to also blame the TTC)

If Canadian taxpayers are going to be unwilling investors in Bombardier (of which I'm one) then Canadians should expect and demand a return. Quebekers also deserve a return, after all it's their provincial Government's Caisse de depot that's in for not a penny, but a pound with C Series. Cutting off the support is a preposterous suggestion. What other airplane or train manufacturer of the scale and scope of BBD do we have???
(Please don't suggest Viking)

Alberta has provided Canada with an economic engine. But the vocal minority environmental lobby funded by American interests have doused that flame. Canadians will take awhile to wake up. The U.S. doesn't want our oil and gas industry to get to the open market and by blocking a pipeline through any lobbying means, means we shut down the Alberta Oil Sands so that unsold Canadian oil will be American oil sold in its place. Who will suffer? Go stand in front of a mirror.

This isn't about Quebec. But I agree, Quebec is the spoiled child in this confederation we call Canada.
I understand the 'separatist' tone in Alberta. But, like Quebec, this country doesn't have a divorce court for disgruntled provinces. Neither province is going to separate any time soon.

Quebec haters, carry on.
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by anofly » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:55 am

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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by iflyforpie » Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:17 am

It’s called competition, and Irving Oil—being a private enterprise—chooses to buy easily available and sweet Saudi Crude rather than spending billions on cat crackers to turn Alberta Tar into something other than roofing shingles or road sealant. It’s why we are enjoying low gas prices across the nation instead of the $2+ per litre we’d have in a Canadian market protected by tariffs and boycotts.

I find it ironic that those independent hardworking true blue Alberta Conservatives are always the first to scream for government intervention as soon as times get tough.

Maybe we could call it the National Energy Program 2.0. But heaven forbid the Federal Government get a return on investment. ;)
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Donald » Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:54 pm

Gino, you can take it as an insult towards Quebec, but my question still stands.

How much revenue has Bombardier directly provided to Canada, versus oil and gas?

How much government welfare has each received?
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Donald » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:27 pm

iflyforpie wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:17 am
I find it ironic that those independent hardworking true blue Alberta Conservatives are always the first to scream for government intervention as soon as times get tough.
Completely wrong.

Albertans want less government intervention, not more.
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Gino Under » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:33 pm

Donald

Absolutely NO offence taken.
Dialogue, even when opinions and perspectives may differ, is still a good thing.
Occasionally, my opinions and perspectives are changed by considering what others have to say.

I find it disgusting any Canadian government official wouldn't support Canadian businesses over foreign. My thought was simply the fact that the GoC has given this company millions over the years. Wouldn't it make sense, if they were interested in seeing some of that money back, that they would take a somewhat different position?

I also happen to think it's juvenile and uninformed ignorance to simply chuck sh*t at Quebec (or any province for that matter) for everything that comes its way.

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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Jet Jockey » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 am

Gino...

I couldn't agree more, spot on!
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by FADEC » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:16 am

DeHAvilland is in Toronto; at least till Viking moves it.
Who thought selling Downsview was a good idea?
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by rookiepilot » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:25 pm

https://business.financialpost.com/tran ... -in-canada

"Bombardier has been plagued by missed deadlines on a Toronto light-rail project, and was blocked last year from bidding on a New York subway-car contract because of past delays. While Via Rail said on-time delivery was a key reason for its decision to choose Siemens, Bellemare insisted his company today is fully capable of honouring its commitments."

Obviously the customer doesn't agree. Yet this CEO has to whine publicly that a Canadian rail operator won't ignore past performance -- and chose someone else.

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/1 ... hicle.html

"Two months after Bombardier announced the first vehicle for Toronto’s Eglinton Crosstown LRT was almost ready, the car has yet to be shipped, and the Quebec-based manufacturer now has just weeks to meet a deadline to deliver half a dozen of the new cars."

Winners -- don't whine.

Just DO YOUR JOB.

"Bombardier Transportation is not a broken company,” Bellemare said. “Bombardier Transportation is a company that’s doing extremely well."

Disagree. And so does most every investor on the planet -- except the Quebec government.

Via says this:

"Via Rail is happy to partner with one of the global leaders in the rail industry, a company recognized for its innovation and its engineering,’’ chief executive officer Yves Desjardins-Siciliano told reporters Wednesday. The new train sets “will substantially improve the customer experience for our millions of passengers currently and those to come, offering more comfort, bike storage” and greater accessibility."

Sounds like a reasonable decision.

Bombardier says this:

"It is astonishing that a call for tenders for trains which will pass through Canada’s national capital and Quebec’s provincial capital has not been subject to measures which would ensure maximum local benefits and the use of Canadian high technology"

If it passes through Quebec's capital-- that's what matters?
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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by Gino Under » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:05 am

It’s so easy to dump on Quebec and Quebec based companies, isn’t it?
Like it or not, the Bellemare ‘team’ of executives are pulling this outfit out of the quicksand because the numbers can’t hide the progress they’ve made and are making.
We all know the TTC debacle is one sided. Yet, there are two sides to any grievance. Even this one.
The Thunder Bay News reported last summer, quote

“A staff report prepared for the Toronto Transit Commission contains hints that Bombardier is in a good position to win another order for streetcars.

TTC spokesperson Brad Ross won't comment on that interpretation, stating that "No decisions will be made until 2019. We'll let the report speak for itself at this point."

However, Dominic Pasqualino, the head of Unifor Local 1075 at Thunder Bay's Bombardier plant feels the company is in line for the next contract, because "If they gave that to another supplier, then they would have to do all the work that we have already done, set up tooling and jigs, and order parts and do all that."
Out of the ten companies that responded with information about their ability to supply 60 streetcars, staff say, four or five "would be good candidates" for bids.

The document does not identify the favoured suppliers, but numerous references to Bombardier suggest that missed production targets with the existing streetcar contract are not as big an issue as they became in 2017.

A TTC board motion in July 2017 asked the board to take a look at other suppliers in light of "the less than outstanding delivery record" of Bombardier.

The new report states that Bombardier's "production rate continues to increase and quality continues to improve, particularly in Thunder Bay where streetcars are completed. While challenges continue, TTC and Bombardier remain committed in working together to identify areas of constraint, improved efficiencies and the implementation of corrective actions."

It also says that the company continues to prepare for a second production line at its Kingston plant, where the first car was due in October 2017, and that this "will add confidence that Bombardier will recover and meet the original commitment for 204 new streetcars by the end of 2019."

The report further notes that Bombardier could start delivering cars under a new order by the third quarter of 2020, which is when the TTC would want them because of a continuing surge in population and employment in downtown Toronto.

In contrast, none of the other potential bidders would be able to deliver even a prototype vehicle before 2023, with completed delivery happening as late as 2025.”

I have no idea why some are so possessed with the Bombardier bashing but I know one thing, it’s easier to bash Bombardier and Quebec than it is to come to grips with certain facts. And some of those facts aren’t the negatives some would have you believe,

Good grief!

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Re: Garneau says Bombardier can't be favoured in Bids.

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:55 am

This is irrelevant to where Bombardier is located. Simply the facts.

When they pay back what they have sucked from the taxpayer -- and perhaps elect an accountable board and not close knit family members like the sopranos -- perhaps I'll stop criticizing.

In other words when I'm convinced it's a real company standing on its own 2 feet like the rest of us, and not a Canadian / Quebec political football.

Gotta admit. How many other companies have been bailed out or given financial loans during the peak of this economic cycle? I can't think of one in recent history at all. Anyone else, with possible exception of AC, was in the context of the financial crisis. Criticize the auto bailouts if you wish, but it's a completely different context.

Bombardier is certainly considered a special case seemingly immune to the consequences other companies face for poor performance. Why shouldn't that be criticized?

Face it. It's a permanent Quebec welfare case -- until proven otherwise. That will never change from what I see.

And -- orders ain't enough. Real, positive cash flow is what matters. Lots of companies have made this mistake.

And -- I don't see why any CEO is worth 14 mill a year when their company isn't even close to this basic and essential benchmark. This pay is within striking range if not above the major US aerospace companies -- all of which are solidly profitable and many multiples of BBD's size.
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