Visa sponsored jobs abroad

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sullecpt
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Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by sullecpt »

Hey everyone,

I love Canada. Its a very desirable place to be, but I'd also like to do something different for a few years and make some money while I'm at it.

I'm looking for information on working outside Canada. I know myself and plenty of others would happily put politics aside to work and live in USA, Australia, NZ, Europe, etc. Lower cost of living, higher pay, potentially live somewhere warmer. The problem is I don't really see any opportunities advertised except for Asia and the middle east, both of which seem to pay well, but come with a lot of other issues IMO.

Will the world ever open the borders to sponsor Canadian pilots? I mean, I've read posts here claiming Air Wisconsin and others may be sponsoring H1B visas for USA but its not really advertised. Australia was also supposed to be opening up to sponsoring pilots under the new TSS visa scheme. Funny enough, a major contributor to the shortage in Australia is that its so easy for them to go to USA under the E3 visa.

We all keep hearing about the pilot shortage, maybe there is some 'pilot demand', but is there really a shortage? Where are the flying jobs abroad? I'd love to hear experiences you all have, whether it be airlines, corporate, bush, whatever. Where does a fella find some adventure?
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FOD_Vacuum
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by FOD_Vacuum »

Same for me-I’d like to make some money abroad for a few years so I can afford a house. Sick of the low pay and high living costs in Canada. No one can get ahead in these times with this so called “pilot shortage” and massive amounts of debt acquired from pilot training.

I’d love to get a high paying job at a Middle East or Asian carrier and make some money, but it still looks like they want you to have an A320 or 737 type rating with 500 hours on type, which is rediculous. When you arrive, you still have to go through the training and recertification type rating regardless, so they have to spend money on you for the type rating anyway. I’ve been flying commercial for almost a decade, which makes it feel like all my experience doesn’t count for anything? :lol:
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Tap
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by Tap »

Me too!
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telex
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by telex »

FOD_Vacuum wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:05 pm Same for me-I’d like to make some money abroad for a few years so I can afford a house. Sick of the low pay and high living costs in Canada. No one can get ahead in these times with this so called “pilot shortage” and massive amounts of debt acquired from pilot training.

I’d love to get a high paying job at a Middle East or Asian carrier and make some money, but it still looks like they want you to have an A320 or 737 type rating with 500 hours on type, which is rediculous. When you arrive, you still have to go through the training and recertification type rating regardless, so they have to spend money on you for the type rating anyway. I’ve been flying commercial for almost a decade, which makes it feel like all my experience doesn’t count for anything? :lol:
It's not that ridiculous a concept to show up with a type rating and time on type when you are being hired as a qualified crewmember. No point in a foreign company paying for your type rating when there are locals they can train.
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FOD_Vacuum
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by FOD_Vacuum »

telex, you are missing the point. You have to go through the type rating course and company training regardless, with or without type rating or previous experience. The only difference is that the guy with experience on type will most likely have an easier time to train since he has previously flown the aircraft.

If you look at it from a cost point of view, the amount shelled out by the company will most likely be about the same. You still have to learn, practice and prove to the company through sim sessions and evals that you are competent in their SOP, emergency procedures and fullfill certain hourly session requirements. Not to mention keeping current, again, anyone would have to do the same training program.
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telex
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by telex »

FOD_Vacuum wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:47 pm telex, you are missing the point. You have to go through the type rating course and company training regardless, with or without type rating or previous experience. The only difference is that the guy with experience on type will most likely have an easier time to train since he has previously flown the aircraft.

If you look at it from a cost point of view, the amount shelled out by the company will most likely be about the same. You still have to learn, practice and prove to the company through sim sessions and evals that you are competent in their SOP, emergency procedures and fullfill certain hourly session requirements. Not to mention keeping current, again, anyone would have to do the same training program.
I think I understand the point quite well. Two sim session and a ride is not possible without a type rating.

Can you reference a company which supports your view?
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by FOD_Vacuum »

How do companies get away with only two sim sessions and a ride? I’d hope there’s more training involved-what about expired type ratings???
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telex
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by telex »

FOD_Vacuum wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:01 pm How do companies get away with only two sim sessions and a ride? I’d hope there’s more training involved-what about expired type ratings???
There is a reason why a type rating, time on type, and last flight on type within x months is a requirement.

Expired type ratings means not current on type. Not qualified.

What companies do you think run initial courses for expats with no type rating?

"recertification type rating". What is that?
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by FOD_Vacuum »

telex wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:33 pm
FOD_Vacuum wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:05 pm Same for me-I’d like to make some money abroad for a few years so I can afford a house. Sick of the low pay and high living costs in Canada. No one can get ahead in these times with this so called “pilot shortage” and massive amounts of debt acquired from pilot training.

I’d love to get a high paying job at a Middle East or Asian carrier and make some money, but it still looks like they want you to have an A320 or 737 type rating with 500 hours on type, which is rediculous. When you arrive, you still have to go through the training and recertification type rating regardless, so they have to spend money on you for the type rating anyway. I’ve been flying commercial for almost a decade, which makes it feel like all my experience doesn’t count for anything? :lol:
It's not that ridiculous a concept to show up with a type rating and time on type when you are being hired as a qualified crewmember. No point in a foreign company paying for your type rating when there are locals they can train.
telex, aside from straying from the OP question on both counts here, myself included, it seems that you like dissect and criticize everything I say. Nonetheless, you say there is no point that a foreign company pays for your type rating. With a global pilot shortage, I have to disagree. Airlines would have a way larger pool of ATPL applicants available to them if they removed the type rating and time on type requirement. Why do you think Asia pays big bucks for foreign pilots? It certainly isn't because they have, from what you said, locals they can train. Doesn't matter if it is a local or foreigner-cost for initial type rating and recurrent will be the same.

Hypothetically speaking, if a Sunwing captain applies to Xiamen Airlines with one month left on type rating, technically he is current. In one months time, they will have to retrain him/her because the type rating will no longer be valid. They still have to spend money for the training. Take into consideration 6 month intervals of LOFT/PPC checkout rides, etc the cost for training will virtually be the same for a foreign vs local. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If you must know, I was meant to write my sentence as "re-certification of type rating". Now, if we can continue with the OP post of where you can find those jobs abroad, my ears are open.
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Eric Janson
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by Eric Janson »

FOD_Vacuum wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:01 pm How do companies get away with only two sim sessions and a ride? I’d hope there’s more training involved-what about expired type ratings???
This was exactly what I did when I joined my present employer - I was current with over 2500 hours on Type. Why would I need more?

Don't forget there is still Line Training required. This is currently 6 sectors plus a 2 sector Line Check before being released.

Prior to doing any Sim you need to complete the company OCC (Operator Conversion Course) which is currently 10 days of classroom courses plus some self study courses.

All this is written in OM-D which is approved by the local CAA.


Now back to the original question.


It would help if you listed your qualifications.

Each country has it's own nationals as Pilots - no shortage of low time Pilots anywhere.

Only logical that a country will train and hire its own citizens first.

Depending on the location there may be a shortage of Experienced Type Rated Captains and these will be hired from the Global pool of available candidates. The Airline looks after all the necessary paperwork (work/residence permits, Licence conversion etc.).

Some Airlines will hire Type Rated FO - but I wouldn't recommend this unless there is the possibility of getting Command at some point.

In the EU you generally need an EU passport and Licence - conversion isn't easy as posted on a different thread. Some companies may sponsor you for the residence permit but I don't know how that works.

There is a hidden requirement in the EU that you speak the language as well - in some cases you will be given time to do this. This isn't the case for every company but it will certainly help you.

Some Airlines run cadet programmes - you can look at the ins and outs for yourself.

Some Airlines may hire non rated people - generally these contracts are very poor.

Some Airlines will hire you after you get the Type Rating at your expense. Lion Air used to do this just look at their safety record. People that have worked there have a lot to say about it - none of it good.

In summary there are no shortcuts - don't underestimate the difficulty of living overseas. It isn't for everyone.

I don't make anywhere near the figures I see advertised - but then I don't chase money. I just started work last week after 17 days in a row off at home.
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Arnie Pye
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by Arnie Pye »

sullecpt wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:58 am I know myself and plenty of others would happily put politics aside to work and live in USA, Australia, NZ, Europe, etc. Lower cost of living, higher pay, potentially live somewhere warmer.
Lower cost of living and Australia, NZ don't exactly go together. Australia's real estate is just starting a correction but in most of their major cities, you can't find a condo for less than half a mil. Auckland is just about the same. Rent there is running over $4000/month for a family home. Taxes are pretty much on par with Canada. Maybe a hair less but not significantly. Food - about the same. Beer, about the same.

No one in either Australia or NZ are actually sponsoring visa applications. I believe that self-sponsoring immigration to Australia will cost the average applicant somewhere around $10,000. It has become rather expensive over the last few years.

Scoot in Singapore is sponsoring I believe. Same with Cebu Pacific. Corporate jobs abroad seem to be a rather tuff nut to crack. Susi air in Indonesia will take you for bush flying. You want warm, try the middle east or Hong Kong in the summer.
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telex
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by telex »

FOD_Vacuum wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:45 pm
telex wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:33 pm
FOD_Vacuum wrote: Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:05 pm Same for me-I’d like to make some money abroad for a few years so I can afford a house. Sick of the low pay and high living costs in Canada. No one can get ahead in these times with this so called “pilot shortage” and massive amounts of debt acquired from pilot training.

I’d love to get a high paying job at a Middle East or Asian carrier and make some money, but it still looks like they want you to have an A320 or 737 type rating with 500 hours on type, which is rediculous. When you arrive, you still have to go through the training and recertification type rating regardless, so they have to spend money on you for the type rating anyway. I’ve been flying commercial for almost a decade, which makes it feel like all my experience doesn’t count for anything? :lol:
It's not that ridiculous a concept to show up with a type rating and time on type when you are being hired as a qualified crewmember. No point in a foreign company paying for your type rating when there are locals they can train.
telex, aside from straying from the OP question on both counts here, myself included, it seems that you like dissect and criticize everything I say. Nonetheless, you say there is no point that a foreign company pays for your type rating. With a global pilot shortage, I have to disagree. Airlines would have a way larger pool of ATPL applicants available to them if they removed the type rating and time on type requirement. Why do you think Asia pays big bucks for foreign pilots? It certainly isn't because they have, from what you said, locals they can train. Doesn't matter if it is a local or foreigner-cost for initial type rating and recurrent will be the same.

Hypothetically speaking, if a Sunwing captain applies to Xiamen Airlines with one month left on type rating, technically he is current. In one months time, they will have to retrain him/her because the type rating will no longer be valid. They still have to spend money for the training. Take into consideration 6 month intervals of LOFT/PPC checkout rides, etc the cost for training will virtually be the same for a foreign vs local. Please correct me if I am wrong.

If you must know, I was meant to write my sentence as "re-certification of type rating". Now, if we can continue with the OP post of where you can find those jobs abroad, my ears are open.
I strayed from the OP question as I was skeptical about your reply to such. I still am.

Your claim seems to be that there is a massive pilot shortage that requires your near decade of commercial aviation experience as a 737 or 320 captain with no experience on type.

"Why do you think Asia pays big bucks for foreign pilots?" Because they are type rated and current with significant time on type.

You are in amongst the endless supply of zero time applicants with a national passport (which you do not possess). But you have convinced yourself a type rating and time on type requirement is foolish.

I'm still waiting for you to list the airlines which you claim provide initial courses for expat pilots.

Help me understand your hypothetical Sunwing Captain scenario. One month to go before his or her type rating expires. To me that means he or she is not current on type and it's been twenty three months since he or she flew the airplane? To me that means he or she would not even be considered for an interview. What does it mean to you?

Maybe if you listed your type ratings and foreign licences and or validations and countries you have worked in I would understand your position better as you seem to speak with some authority on the issue.
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by FOD_Vacuum »

Use a little tool named google and search NTR pilot positions in Asia. Air Macau, Cathay Dragon, EVA and Jetstar Japan, for example will hire you as an expat without the Airbus type rating. I’d safely assume that those would be initial type rating for new expat hires, am I right? A colleague has received calls from Jetstar and EVA indicating that the type rating is not a hard requirement.
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by HansDietrich »

Lots of companies abroad ask that you have time on type, but will take you if you've flown something similar. For example, you can be hired at Emirates on the 777 with only a 737 type rating. They will give you full type rating once you're successfully hired by them. Also, I've seen ads for 777 pilots, that asked time on type or 757/767 time. My only advice is that, if you go as an F/O abroad, try to inform yourself about the company culture there. Being an F/O sometimes mean you have to take a lot of crap from you captains. I've heard horror stories from guys being FOs in China and having some abusive captains.
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by bearitus »

For someone who is considering the overseas route for the reasons mentioned above, would an airline in the middle East or Asia hire a type rated (737, 320, etc...) Canadian FO with time on type? Would the FO ever have a chance to upgrade at these airlines? I see mostly ads for type rated captains but I am interested on the perspective for FOs.
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Re: Visa sponsored jobs abroad

Post by Lightchop »

If you have Q time Qantaslink will beg you to come work for them. It's too bad they don't have direct entry captain positions or I'd likely be living in Australia right now.
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