New drone rules for Canada...

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Meatservo
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Meatservo » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:57 pm

This next comment isn't professional, it's just hobby-related.

You guys are a bunch of prats. These new rules are bullshit. There's nowhere I can go that's not within 9km of some kind of aerodrome. I wasn't bothering anyone with my little models. None of them fly higher than 100 feet. I used to enjoy using my down-time gluing sticks and tissue-paper together to make models of little rag&bone aeroplanes to waft around at the park so I could empty my mind and do something engaging and harmless. Oh well, I guess I can always smoke dope instead. That's perfectly legal.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by fish4life » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:01 am

Does a real pilot license exempt you from requiring to get a stupid drone license ?
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by C-GGGQ » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:24 am

Meatservo wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:57 pm
This next comment isn't professional, it's just hobby-related.

You guys are a bunch of prats. These new rules are bullshit. There's nowhere I can go that's not within 9km of some kind of aerodrome. I wasn't bothering anyone with my little models. None of them fly higher than 100 feet. I used to enjoy using my down-time gluing sticks and tissue-paper together to make models of little rag&bone aeroplanes to waft around at the park so I could empty my mind and do something engaging and harmless. Oh well, I guess I can always smoke dope instead. That's perfectly legal.
I agree completely. You and all RC guys should be exempt. You weren't the problem it's the proliferation of all these autopilot, self hover, camera drones (wife just asked for one and I got to show her the new rules lol) that any idiot can fly that's the problem. $1000 to take the same selfie they saw someone else take on Instagram
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by lownslow » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:45 am

Meatservo wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:57 pm
\You guys are a bunch of prats. These new rules are bullshit. There's nowhere I can go that's not within 9km of some kind of aerodrome. I wasn't bothering anyone with my little models. None of them fly higher than 100 feet. I used to enjoy using my down-time gluing sticks and tissue-paper together to make models of little rag&bone aeroplanes to waft around at the park so I could empty my mind and do something engaging and harmless. Oh well, I guess I can always smoke dope instead. That's perfectly legal.
My sentiments exactly.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by linecrew » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:09 am

The reality is TC simply doesn't have the resources to enforce this and my guess is that they will only take action if something bad happens or it's reported to them. Just look at the SMS system...it's very reactive rather than proactive. So these new regs are hopefully going to be a deterrent for irresponsible/igonorant people. As for folks like Meatservo flying small models, max 100 feet off the ground, well away from an airport, I'd say carry on as these rules aren't targeting these types of responsible hobbyists.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by lownslow » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:54 am

linecrew wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:09 am
I'd say carry on as these rules aren't targeting these types of responsible hobbyists.
For some of us that's simply not worth the risk. The way Transport looks at me is directly tied to my income.

What's also frustrating is that if I read it correctly this program will be costing the Canadian taxpayers on the order of thirty million dollars. Before someone says, "That's what the fees are for," that thirty million is after the fees are collected.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by ahramin » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:39 am

While these new rules may sound reasonable or "common sense", the existing rules already prohibit drone use in most of inhabited Canada due to the proximity of airports. Have a look at your local area and see where you can fly a drone, in Vancouver it's a few very small wedges. Drones already had to be marked with the owner's contact information. So if it was a problem, the cops and TC already had laws they could enforce but I haven't seen any action on that front. So what's the justification for the new bureaucracy?

On the commercial side it's devastating. You already needed an SFOC for most work. Some operators were complying and some were not. No enforcement action here either no matter how egregious the violation (flying over people, cars, running into buildings). But now any small drone business will effectively be shut down regardless of compliance because they have to replace their $1000 drone wiith a $20 000 to $100 000 one that is on TC's approved list. Basically Canada is saying that this new technology is scary and we don't want it here. Compare this to the US where they have a very streamlined process for getting access to controlled airspace, and if you aren't in controlled airspace you don't need any approval. Big advantages in survey, mapping, photograpy, 3D modelling, but in Canada we don't want it.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Chris M » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:55 am

Does the whole "Less than 30m from or above people" apply during takeoff and landing? Or exempt those involved in flying? At most RC fields the pilots stand pretty close to the runway, so by their current logic nearly every RC flyer is going to fall into the advanced category.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by digits_ » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:14 am

Meatservo wrote:
Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:57 pm
This next comment isn't professional, it's just hobby-related.

You guys are a bunch of prats. These new rules are bullshit. There's nowhere I can go that's not within 9km of some kind of aerodrome. I wasn't bothering anyone with my little models. None of them fly higher than 100 feet. I used to enjoy using my down-time gluing sticks and tissue-paper together to make models of little rag&bone aeroplanes to waft around at the park so I could empty my mind and do something engaging and harmless. Oh well, I guess I can always smoke dope instead. That's perfectly legal.
It's completely possible I missed it, but isn't this your saving grace:
Exception — Remotely Piloted Aircraft Systems

700.01.1 This Part does not apply in respect of the operation of remotely piloted aircraft systems that include remotely piloted aircraft having a maximum take-off weight 25 kg (55 pounds) or less.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Heliian » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:03 am

lownslow wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:54 am
What's also frustrating is that if I read it correctly this program will be costing the Canadian taxpayers on the order of thirty million dollars. Before someone says, "That's what the fees are for," that thirty million is after the fees are collected.
I don't think that's possible, what did you read?
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Heliian » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:23 am

ahramin wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:39 am


On the commercial side it's devastating. You already needed an SFOC for most work. Some operators were complying and some were not. No enforcement action here either no matter how egregious the violation (flying over people, cars, running into buildings). But now any small drone business will effectively be shut down regardless of compliance because they have to replace their $1000 drone wiith a $20 000 to $100 000 one that is on TC's approved list. Basically Canada is saying that this new technology is scary and we don't want it here. Compare this to the US where they have a very streamlined process for getting access to controlled airspace, and if you aren't in controlled airspace you don't need any approval. Big advantages in survey, mapping, photograpy, 3D modelling, but in Canada we don't want it.
Why are you panicking? There is nothing about having to buy new drones, you may have to prove safety but that shouldn't be difficult with most commercial models. They are trying to hold people accountable for their actions and to get people to follow proper procedures when flying a drone for commercial purposes.

While some enthusiasts are on here bitching and moaning about how this will effect their lifestyle, serious users are already complying.

It was also kind of them to reduce the required distances from aerodromes and heliports.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by lownslow » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:53 am

Heliian wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:03 am
I don't think that's possible, what did you read?
"Taking monetized costs and benefits together, the quantified present value of net costs is $28.4 million over 2018–2029"

Edited because I found a better quote.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by ahramin » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:19 pm

Heliian wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:23 am
ahramin wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:39 am


On the commercial side it's devastating. You already needed an SFOC for most work. Some operators were complying and some were not. No enforcement action here either no matter how egregious the violation (flying over people, cars, running into buildings). But now any small drone business will effectively be shut down regardless of compliance because they have to replace their $1000 drone wiith a $20 000 to $100 000 one that is on TC's approved list. Basically Canada is saying that this new technology is scary and we don't want it here. Compare this to the US where they have a very streamlined process for getting access to controlled airspace, and if you aren't in controlled airspace you don't need any approval. Big advantages in survey, mapping, photograpy, 3D modelling, but in Canada we don't want it.
Why are you panicking? There is nothing about having to buy new drones, you may have to prove safety but that shouldn't be difficult with most commercial models. They are trying to hold people accountable for their actions and to get people to follow proper procedures when flying a drone for commercial purposes.

While some enthusiasts are on here bitching and moaning about how this will effect their lifestyle, serious users are already complying.

It was also kind of them to reduce the required distances from aerodromes and heliports.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviati ... drone.html

The cheapest drone on that list is about $20 000. If it's not on the list, you cannot use it within 30m of any person, effectively making it impossible to do drone work almost everywhere you would want to do drone work.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Meatservo » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:50 pm

Heliian wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:23 am
While some enthusiasts are on here bitching and moaning about how this will effect their lifestyle, serious users are already complying.

It was also kind of them to reduce the required distances from aerodromes and heliports.

You see before the internet, we had these things called "hobbies". Besides working, chasing tail, drinking and sports, they were the main way people had to not go insane and kill themselves. Well, sports actually are kind of a "hobby" really. So, you can dismiss enthusiasts and their "lifestyle" if you wish, but there's no reason to insinuate their opinions aren't valid just because you don't understand them. Nowadays social-networking and smoking drugs are considered to be a "lifestyle" and are kind of sacrosanct because we don't want to offend anyone. But aeromodelling used to actually be kind of a big deal. It wasn't a "fringe" element.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Heliian » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:58 pm

ahramin wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:19 pm
Heliian wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:23 am
ahramin wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:39 am


On the commercial side it's devastating. You already needed an SFOC for most work. Some operators were complying and some were not. No enforcement action here either no matter how egregious the violation (flying over people, cars, running into buildings). But now any small drone business will effectively be shut down regardless of compliance because they have to replace their $1000 drone wiith a $20 000 to $100 000 one that is on TC's approved list. Basically Canada is saying that this new technology is scary and we don't want it here. Compare this to the US where they have a very streamlined process for getting access to controlled airspace, and if you aren't in controlled airspace you don't need any approval. Big advantages in survey, mapping, photograpy, 3D modelling, but in Canada we don't want it.
Why are you panicking? There is nothing about having to buy new drones, you may have to prove safety but that shouldn't be difficult with most commercial models. They are trying to hold people accountable for their actions and to get people to follow proper procedures when flying a drone for commercial purposes.

While some enthusiasts are on here bitching and moaning about how this will effect their lifestyle, serious users are already complying.

It was also kind of them to reduce the required distances from aerodromes and heliports.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviati ... drone.html

The cheapest drone on that list is about $20 000. If it's not on the list, you cannot use it within 30m of any person, effectively making it impossible to do drone work almost everywhere you would want to do drone work.
Unless you apply for an sfoc for the work you intend to do.
They will also grandfather certain systems that meet the current requirements.

What kind of advanced operations are you doing with a $1000 drone anyways?
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Heliian » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:04 pm

Meatservo wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:50 pm
Heliian wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:23 am
While some enthusiasts are on here bitching and moaning about how this will effect their lifestyle, serious users are already complying.

It was also kind of them to reduce the required distances from aerodromes and heliports.

You see before the internet, we had these things called "hobbies". Besides working, chasing tail, drinking and sports, they were the main way people had to not go insane and kill themselves. Well, sports actually are kind of a "hobby" really. So, you can dismiss enthusiasts and their "lifestyle" if you wish, but there's no reason to insinuate their opinions aren't valid just because you don't understand them. Nowadays social-networking and smoking drugs are considered to be a "lifestyle" and are kind of sacrosanct because we don't want to offend anyone. But aeromodelling used to actually be kind of a big deal. It wasn't a "fringe" element.
I'm not dismissing it! I am an RC and drone enthusiast also! I'm just not that worried about a $5 fee and some easily workable regulations.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Maynard » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:00 am

fish4life wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:01 am
Does a real pilot license exempt you from requiring to get a stupid drone license ?
No! I just wrote the basic exam yesterday...there was a question on effects of icing on a fixed wing, human factors, DAH (which I've never heard of as an ATPL holder). I understand the knowledge requirements around aerodromes, but a little far fetched for the 'Basic exam' in my opinion.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by valleyboy » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:44 am

The problem is that like most things these new regulations were implemented without any knowledge of drones. There was no consulting or ability for users to have a voice. Icing, are you kidding me, the battery powered stuff is recommended not to fly in any type precip because of batteries and circuits for water damage. There are hobbyists flying jet aircraft for years and high performance "drones" These guys are true hobbyists and had aircraft that covered a lot of ground.

In the CARs there is a difference between fixed wing and helicopters. I don't see much effort for the "drones" The issues started with rotary wing drones and stupid people (likely most under the age of 16)

It's a shame to see the knee jerk reaction results. Certainly it needed regulation but not to the extent we got. Good example of how the process works. No lobby groups and not organized compared to the sh1t show over FDT --
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:13 am

With respect to operating within 30 metres or over people. Up till 1 June there was no provision for anybody to operate closer than 30 metres of people not directly involved in the operation. This was a condition on every SFOC issued for commercial operations and was in the interim order for recreational users. The new regulations will allow operations near or over the general public for those drones that have features which will minimize the possibility of the unit hitting somebody. The manufacturer will be responsible for declaring the unit is safe to operate near or over the general public.

Of note there have been numerous people injured after being hit by a drone. Cruise youtube for some examples of epic fails.

With respect to the traditional model airplane flyers, the following note is included in the Gazette entry:
While Part IX of the CARs applies to all RPAS, members of the Model Aeronautics Association of Canada (MAAC) operating at MAAC fields and MAAC sanctioned events will be issued an exemption to certain provisions of the CARs. Under the Act, footnote 8 the Minister has the authority to issue exemptions to the CARs; the exemption will be issued to MAAC before the end of the coming into force of the Regulations.
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Last edited by Big Pistons Forever on Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

Meatservo
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Meatservo » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:20 am

Maynard wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:00 am
fish4life wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:01 am
Does a real pilot license exempt you from requiring to get a stupid drone license ?
No! I just wrote the basic exam yesterday...there was a question on effects of icing on a fixed wing, human factors, DAH (which I've never heard of as an ATPL holder). I understand the knowledge requirements around aerodromes, but a little far fetched for the 'Basic exam' in my opinion.
I'm not smart enough to tell whether you were joking here. Human factors?
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Maynard » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:12 pm

Meatservo wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:20 am
Maynard wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:00 am
fish4life wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:01 am
Does a real pilot license exempt you from requiring to get a stupid drone license ?
No! I just wrote the basic exam yesterday...there was a question on effects of icing on a fixed wing, human factors, DAH (which I've never heard of as an ATPL holder). I understand the knowledge requirements around aerodromes, but a little far fetched for the 'Basic exam' in my opinion.
I'm not smart enough to tell whether you were joking here. Human factors?
Oh how I wish I was...the question involved marital problems, financial issues, stress.... I get it if you’re a drone fixed wing flyer for the mnr operating around aircraft, but that should be on an advanced exam /flight test. But for joe blow in the park? Give me a break...as a pilot you can use your gut to come up with the most correct answer...but for someone new getting into it, good luck.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Meatservo » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:28 pm

Wow.
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by lownslow » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:04 pm

Do you have to swear you won’t keep a copy of the test? I might make up a handy study guide for y’all if and when I write mine...
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by Maynard » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:28 pm

lownslow wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:04 pm
Do you have to swear you won’t keep a copy of the test? I might make up a handy study guide for y’all if and when I write mine...
No and as far as i can tell, it didn't say to not use google either :D
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Re: New drone rules for Canada...

Post by valleyboy » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:01 am

So here is the issue and ya living in a remote area is not the same as a major centre but I have to ask the question. Why would you bother with getting a drone license if there is no way you could possibly meet the criteria of the new rules (such as a having an observer, damn I can fly an aeroplane solo)) Might as well just stay in the "closet" as it were. Don't give them the information to track you in the first place.
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