Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

W5
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:44 pm
Location: Edmonton,AB

Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by W5 » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:29 pm

https://bbdtruenorth.com/postings/canad ... to-new-low

Canadian Aerospace Industry Reaches New Heights, While the Globe and Mail Goes to New Low

Anyone up for some good news about a Canadian business? Bombardier just announced that its new business aircraft – the Global 7500 – set a record for the longest non-stop flight by a business jet – over 8,150 nautical miles.

Actually, that’s more than just good. It’s amazing. Our new aircraft has the longest range, the largest cabin and smoothest ride of any business jet ever made. Its reach can take it from Toronto, over the North Pole at nearly supersonic speed, and arrive in Hong Kong without refueling, carrying more passengers in an extra-spacious cabin that has no rival.

Here’s the best part. The plane was conceived, designed, manufactured, and first flown right here in Canada. It represents the best of Canadian engineering prowess and craftsmanship and is shining proof that Canadian companies can compete and win in global competition.

Our country can take great pride in this historic achievement and no one deserves the recognition more than the thousands of Canadian workers, from the test pilots to mechanics to engineers and electricians, whose determined effort made it possible. Yet, all too often that work and their stories go untold.

A recent poll showed that less than a quarter of the public even knew the Global 7500 aircraft exists. Fewer know about the leading role Bombardier plays in the adoption of sustainable alternative jet fuels, a part of our commitment to preserving the skies which we have the privilege of flying through. Or, that Bombardier has continued to invest billions of dollars in its business jets segment over the last five years, driving new products, Canadian patents and sustained employment.

If all this sounds remarkable, the real surprise is the narrow way our country’s news media has covered Canada’s business aviation industry. Think about it. How often do you hear about the billions of dollars business jet sales bring into the Canadian economy? Did you know that there are barely enough seats in the Rogers Centre (Skydome) to fit all the people whose livelihoods are linked to Canada’s business aviation industry?

A cynic might say it is because the media isn’t interested in good news stories or that they are so fixated on villainizing corporations and wealthy individuals who use business jets that they can’t bring themselves to say anything positive about the industry.

Worse yet is the dishonest attempt to discredit the women and men of Bombardier and paint our company as an organization that prowls the globe offering sweetheart deals to shadowy characters with disregard for the law and our reputation. This latest sorry example of cheap shot journalism was on full display in a recent Globe & Mail article.

In this article, Globe reporter Mark MacKinnon – who has been previously called out by Canada’s National News Media Council for failing to meet basic journalism standards in his reporting of our company – suggests that newly “leaked” records from a now defunct Lithuanian Bank show a “tie” between a Russian tax fraud scheme and a decade old business jet sale. MacKinnon further suggests that this apparent connection implies flaws in our due diligence process.

Putting aside the absurd standard of perfect hindsight, to which the Globe attempts to hold Bombardier, readers are deprived of critical information and context necessary to understand the full story. So, once again we must set the record straight on behalf of our employees.

Let’s start with the fact that Bombardier conducts a robust due diligence on potential buyers of every aircraft we sell. In some cases we move forward. In others we decline. Simply put, we do what we believe is right based on the information available at that time. It is a process that has served us well while delivering more than 1700 aircraft over the past decade, and one that we continue to refine as technology advances.

Others follow similar processes, and it should be noted that Bombardier was far from alone in conducting business with holding companies through the failed Lithuanian Bank. Others include major western banks, American Express, the World Economic Forum, a charity run by Prince Charles, and even the late pop star Prince and the Chelsea football team. The Globe singles out Bombardier, obviously, to make it seem as if we had some distinctive role when the truth is that these commercial transactions were widespread.

Readers should look at how more honest media outlets describe the transactions behind the “leaked” banking records. For example, The Guardian states that “There is no suggestion that end recipients of the funds were aware of the origin of the source money, which arrived via a disguised route. However, the [leaked] documents indicate that criminal and legitimate money may have been mixed together, making it impossible to trace the origin source, before passing through screen companies into the global banking system.”

Even the source that provided these records to the Globe’s reporter, an investigative outlet called OCCRP, cautions that “the very purpose of such systems is to obscure the ownership of money that goes through them” and warns that the material must be viewed in that light. But the Globe blew right through those caveats in its blind zeal to malign us.

The crucial point here is that even the best oversight systems and safeguards aren’t 100% fail-proof. That perspective is essential because when bad actors go to extreme lengths to conceal their misdeeds, the fault belongs with the bad actor, not the businesses that are misled. When banks or insurers advertise in the Globe, for example, is the paper at fault if one of those firms is later accused of wrongdoing?

This missing context is what makes the Globe’s pretend outrage so troubling.

At a time when the hardworking women and men at Bombardier Business Aircraft are achieving remarkable new heights, here’s hoping the press can start aiming a little higher too.

Mike Nadolski
Vice President Communications and Public Affairs
Bombardier
---------- ADS -----------
  

co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3364
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by co-joe » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:27 pm

"Like"
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Gear Jerker
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:48 am

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by Gear Jerker » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:09 pm

Slow clap.

Nah, screw it. Raucous standing ovation.

I'm buying the whole bar a round.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Look, it's f***in Patrick Swayze and Reveen!

TailwheelPilot
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:14 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by TailwheelPilot » Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:55 pm

W5 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:29 pm
Our new aircraft has the longest range, the largest cabin and smoothest ride of any business jet ever made.
This statement annoys me.

Is the Global 7500 really a larger cabin than the ACJ380 (or any of the wide-body Airbus Corporate Jets or Boeing Business Jets?).

Boeing and Airbus models both have ranges up to 11,000 nm according to Google...which is farther than I have seen stated yet for the Global 7500.

A qualifier in the statement such as 'of any purpose-designed business jet' would be nice, but as written it sounds like a lie.
---------- ADS -----------
  

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:32 pm

I kinda think it was qualified when they said business jet. the BBJs and Airbus corporate jets are designed as airliners, but modified as "biz-liners". The A380 wasn't designed to be a business jet, that's a modification.

I"m sure somebody could modify the Global 7500 to be an airliner, probably call it a CRJ400 or something.
---------- ADS -----------
  

gwagen
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:30 am

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by gwagen » Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:36 pm

TailwheelPilot wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:55 pm
W5 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:29 pm
Our new aircraft has the longest range, the largest cabin and smoothest ride of any business jet ever made.
This statement annoys me.

Is the Global 7500 really a larger cabin than the ACJ380 (or any of the wide-body Airbus Corporate Jets or Boeing Business Jets?).

Boeing and Airbus models both have ranges up to 11,000 nm according to Google...which is farther than I have seen stated yet for the Global 7500.

A qualifier in the statement such as 'of any purpose-designed business jet' would be nice, but as written it sounds like a lie.
It’s a small boast if it’s anything. Why be such a pedant?

Why the hell can’t Canadians actually be proud of something?

I’m not one for unbridled nationalism, but, and an airplane may not be the thing for it, why can’t we have something unifying? It’s always central Canada vs west vs Quebec. We need something tangible we can all be proud of.

We’re alive in a time of unimaginable wealth, peace and progress. Be Happy!
---------- ADS -----------
  

TailwheelPilot
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 87
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:14 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by TailwheelPilot » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:18 am

Sorry, I like precision. I know it annoys some people, but it can and does make a difference at times.

Anyone claiming they have the biggest, smallest, or best of anything should ensure that their claims are accurate and narrow enough in scope to be accurate. See Gulfstream, for example, referencing the G650 as having "(a)n 8 foot 6 inch/2.59 meter-wide cabin, the largest in its class" (which is 3 cm higher and 5 cm wider than the Global 7500). Not an imprecise 'largest cabin' and not pretending it is the widest/highest cabin of any business jet ever built, just in it's class which quite obviously excludes bizliners.

If the airframe was ordered as an airliner and later converted to a business jet I would agree, however if the airframe was ordered as a BBJ or ACJ I would argue the specific airframe was made as a business jet, not converted to one. Bombardier said 'ever made' not 'ever designed'.

The Global 7500 does sound like it has some nice features over the G650 like a separate bedroom and stand-up shower - both of which would be very nice for overnight and/or long haul flights, let alone ultra-long haul.
---------- ADS -----------
  

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1456
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:58 am

I said designed as a business jet. The BBJs and ACJs were never DESIGNED as personal transportation. The aircraft are designed to carry hundreds of people thousands of miles, it is far from optimized for the business jet role, with 1-30 people on board. Dedicated jets like the Globals are.

I don't think you're asking for precision anymore, you're looking for fault and picking apart semantics. You're worse than a lawyer.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Jet Jockey
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 am
Location: CYUL

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by Jet Jockey » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:01 am

gwagen wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:36 pm
TailwheelPilot wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:55 pm
W5 wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:29 pm
Our new aircraft has the longest range, the largest cabin and smoothest ride of any business jet ever made.
This statement annoys me.

Is the Global 7500 really a larger cabin than the ACJ380 (or any of the wide-body Airbus Corporate Jets or Boeing Business Jets?).

Boeing and Airbus models both have ranges up to 11,000 nm according to Google...which is farther than I have seen stated yet for the Global 7500.

A qualifier in the statement such as 'of any purpose-designed business jet' would be nice, but as written it sounds like a lie.
It’s a small boast if it’s anything. Why be such a pedant?

Why the hell can’t Canadians actually be proud of something?

I’m not one for unbridled nationalism, but, and an airplane may not be the thing for it, why can’t we have something unifying? It’s always central Canada vs west vs Quebec. We need something tangible we can all be proud of.

We’re alive in a time of unimaginable wealth, peace and progress. Be Happy!
Couldn't agree more.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by rookiepilot » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:11 am

gwagen wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:36 pm

I’m not one for unbridled nationalism, but, and an airplane may not be the thing for it, why can’t we have something unifying? It’s always central Canada vs west vs Quebec.
Good thoughts, though.....

Our political leaders need to lead by example in this area, and when they don't, it degrades the unity you seek.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Jet Jockey
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 am
Location: CYUL

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by Jet Jockey » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:32 am

TailwheelPilot wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:18 am
Sorry, I like precision. I know it annoys some people, but it can and does make a difference at times.

Anyone claiming they have the biggest, smallest, or best of anything should ensure that their claims are accurate and narrow enough in scope to be accurate. See Gulfstream, for example, referencing the G650 as having "(a)n 8 foot 6 inch/2.59 meter-wide cabin, the largest in its class" (which is 3 cm higher and 5 cm wider than the Global 7500). Not an imprecise 'largest cabin' and not pretending it is the widest/highest cabin of any business jet ever built, just in it's class which quite obviously excludes bizliners.

If the airframe was ordered as an airliner and later converted to a business jet I would agree, however if the airframe was ordered as a BBJ or ACJ I would argue the specific airframe was made as a business jet, not converted to one. Bombardier said 'ever made' not 'ever designed'.

The Global 7500 does sound like it has some nice features over the G650 like a separate bedroom and stand-up shower - both of which would be very nice for overnight and/or long haul flights, let alone ultra-long haul.

LOL... You are nit picking at best.

As for the Boeing and Airbus business jets (B737 and AB319), they were designed as airliners first, not business jets and as such aside from extra room because of their size don't really offer the flexibility of a Global, a Gulfstream or a Falcon.

The 737 based corporate aircraft and the Airbus version do not have the range of a Global/Gulfstream without having to add lots of extra fuel tanks (option) which then reduces the amounts of passengers they can carry. They are slow (M.77/.78), and fly at low altitudes (below FL410), often in the winds and turbulence in the mid 30s, compared to the real business jets which can climb directly to FL410. Their pressurization systems are no match to a business jets' systems which offer a much higher differential (3600' foot cabin at FL410, 4500' cabin at FL450) which on long flights makes a huge difference.

Try landing any 737 or 319 at very limited airports with minimal taxi space, ramp space or better yet short runways... Good luck!

If you think deicing/anti-icing a Global type aircraft is expensive, then I would not want to see the invoice for a 737 or 319.

Try finding a hangar for a 737 or 319 type aircraft at any airport, good luck! It's already hard enough for a Global type aircraft.

So unless you require the extra room/passenger capacity albeit with less range and speed or choice of airfields you want to operate in and out of, a 737 type or Airbus 319 converted to a business offers no advantage what so ever!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gino Under
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by Gino Under » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:26 pm

here we go again... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Bombardier bashing.
Nothing more.
Nothing less.

Thanks Mike for putting into simple english the accomplishments of the 7500. An incredible and fantastic purpose built business jet. Companies like Vistajet, Netjets, and people like Nikki Lauda didn't take long to recognize its value to business aviation and its mission capabilities.

(Mike Nadolski, Vice President Communications and Public Affairs at Bombardier, that is.)
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by Gino Under on Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jet Jockey
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 am
Location: CYUL

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by Jet Jockey » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:37 pm

Gino Under wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:26 pm
here we go again... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Bombardier bashing.
Nothing more.
Nothing less.

Bingo!

I can't understand why, we Canadians are always ready to shoot down one of ours instead of praising it when they do come up with a fantastic product.

I'm still irate at the POS work W5 did on the Challenger in the 80s, another aircraft ahead of its times... Those idiot reporters went to Gulfstream to get their opinions on the Challenger and of course we all know how that turned out.
---------- ADS -----------
  

W5
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 826
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2004 4:44 pm
Location: Edmonton,AB

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by W5 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:10 pm

Hey, that wasn't me!
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by rookiepilot » Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:28 pm

It's one thing to create a fantastic product, quite another to manage well and make a successful, profitable business out of it.

Tesla is a poster child for this disparity
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by confusedalot » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:37 am

I must have missed something, not aware of any product quality bashing. Sure is a nice high end product, destined for sale to an exclusive niche market.

Is it possible that some are annoyed at the backroom taxpayer financed element of the equation?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by rookiepilot » Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:13 pm

confusedalot wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:37 am
I must have missed something, not aware of any product quality bashing. Sure is a nice high end product, destined for sale to an exclusive niche market.

Is it possible that some are annoyed at the backroom taxpayer financed element of the equation?
Some animals are more equal than others, comrade
---------- ADS -----------
  

Jet Jockey
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 284
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 am
Location: CYUL

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by Jet Jockey » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:28 pm

Yeah the same way we the people financed a poorly runned national airline for more than 50 years.

Besides although both levels of government may have loaned money for the C Series, which I assume is already paid back or will be in the futur, I don’t recall the government gave away money for free to Bombardier for the Global 7500 project.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by rookiepilot » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:44 am

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/morneau-say ... sc=suKM7uZ

Details in the summer.

Who wants to bet Quebec companies will be exempted?

This was a joke....sort of. Nothing would shock me.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by rookiepilot on Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
YYZSaabGuy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 748
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:32 am
Location: On glideslope.

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by YYZSaabGuy » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:04 am

rookiepilot wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:44 am
https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/morneau-say ... sc=suKM7uZ

Details in the summer.

Who wants to bet Quebec companies will be exempted?
I'll take the other side of that bet - that might be a bit on the nose even for a government as obviously biased as this one.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by rookiepilot » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:20 pm

---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 891
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by confusedalot » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:05 pm

As an aside, the Quebec government gave the bulk of rescue money, 1 billion, a few years back. The feds pitched in with a little more, some hundreds of millions or so.

Bombardier also sold off other bits, one of which was their training unit, to CAE.

Wonder why they can't pull an air Canada trick with all of that help. They are the darlings of the market now.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?

corethatthermal
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:27 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by corethatthermal » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:33 pm

We need something tangible we can all be proud of.
Not according to that shithead in Ottawa, as he says we live in a post-national state and there is no core identity, no mainstream in Canada!
The only thing we are supposed to be proud of is our multiculturalism and diversity and look at how that is going in sweden or france or, or, or .
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
rookiepilot
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1374
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 3:50 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by rookiepilot » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:35 pm

Addressing the title of this thread ---world class companies don't ever need to "rip the media". IE, I've never heard CAE complain.

They just shut up and execute, and that alone shuts the critics up ---

Bombardier wants to have it both ways: Take government help offered to no one else out there -- for many years anyway -- and then whine when the media calls them out.

Sorry it doesn't work that way.


That executive team gets millions upon millions a year. Surely that should compensate for having a thick skin.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Gino Under
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:06 pm

Re: Bombardier rips into the Globe and Mail

Post by Gino Under » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:34 am

It’s easily understood that there’s often good reason to rip into the media. The ‘Mop and Pail’ included. They’ve been called out for being inaccurate in the past and have had to retract those inaccuracies more than once. Their article on Bombardier is simply inaccurate, and I have no doubt Bombardier have their biased spin on just about everything in their press releases that are market sensitive. As an investor, I appreciate the spin.
Bombardier has taken their lumps. There are undoubtedly more lumps to come.
Some of those lumps, deservedly so. Others not. The same can be said for not only the press but all forms of media.
The Globe article is simply not at all accurate and Bombardier hit back. Fair game.
CNN this morning reported the B737 MAX is the only airliner with “this type (MCAS) of stall protection”.
Really?
Inaccurate reporting. Pure and simple. Not everything CNN reports is accurate. But I’m clever enough to know she’s simply reading a TelePrompTer.
What editorial excuse does the Globe have? The same one Bombardier has.
You tell your version and I’ll tell mine.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstor ... li=AAgh0dA

Gino Under
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”