Shall I take a dock staff position or wait till I get my first flying position.

[gopherblack]

Hi everyone,

In this current climate, is it wise to take a dockhand position? Does anyone have experience working with Canadianflyinshing and wabakimi air? I am about to complete my commercial with ME-IFR. Is it wiser to wait, finish my commercial and spend time looking for flying positions or better to pick up a dock position and hope that I get checked out by the end of the season? My aim is to build time to be eligible for medevac position, which usually requires atleast 500 TT.

Thanks

[PilotDAR]

An important element of advancing through piloting is being around pilots and planes. You will meet who you should meet, and gain experience much more quickly by being where the planes are. If you want to be around floatplanes, work at the dock, if you want to be around landplanes, work at the airport. There's no shame post PPL/CPL, working on the ramp/dock/ The work has to be done by someone, demonstrate to the decision makers that you're willing to get in there, and do the work - they probably did back in the day!

In hind sight, my four decades of flying, and working in industry were in large part because after earning my license; I slugged bags at YYZ, I pumped gas at several small airports, and I scrubbed filthy aircraft bellies - without ever complaining about the work. In each case, employers to be saw I was a hard worker, and was more valuable to them in a more advanced role, I was quickly promoted up from those tasks.

Some people will say that pilots should not load cargo. If their career path did not need that important character building element, good for them! Everyone else benefits from some hard work and humble character building!

[hotdog1]

How long are you willing to wait to get your flying position that you want? Your choice is between waiting for who knows how long to get your first job(and risk being labelled as “entitled”) or take a dockhand job and “hope” to get checked out.
Ask your prospective employers for the dock job if the dockhand got checked out last year- then you will have a better idea if your hard work will pay off and lead to a flying position in a known time period.
I agree that if you want to fly, take a job that gets you around planes and pilots. It’s a small world and hard work could get you advanced within a company or lead to a great reference for a flying job outside your company
Good luck

[Meatservo]

I'm going to go waaay beyond the pale and suggest that you do whatever seems like the most fun. All roads lead to Rome in aviation. Out of the two possibilities you've presented us, neither one is a guarantee of future success, nor is it a limiting factor. My first season "on the dock" was a comp,ete and utter waste of time. I worked for a total shit-show of an outfitter/airline, didn't spend much time in a plane at all except for once or twice incidentally and also the time they crashed, which was not cool, but then again I wasn't hurt, and once I started flying a couple years later I certainly didn't ever make the mistake THAT guy did. Now I'm about 25 years into my career, and more or less equal to my contemporaries from my class at college. Some of them are doing better than me (like Jeff-Bezos-better), some of them aren't, but that doesn't have anything to do with that summer I spent on the dock. In fact, I learned some pretty key survival skills that summer. Like how to stow that quivering bottom lip and get the job done even when things aren't going your way. I remember one time I had to shrink-wrap a dock and sleep under it in a thunderstorm because we had finished the dock but not the cabin. I don't know. I guess I don't have any advice for you other than I don't think it matters what you do in your first year. It certainly doesn't matter to me!

[PilotDAR]

Like how to stow that quivering bottom lip and get the job done even when things aren't going your way.

Yes!

Very memorable for me (though not at a dock) was Roy Moore, owner of Worldways, for whom I worked in a "dock equivalent" ramp job, catching me doing cleaning work in the hangar that I was not hired to do, and not being paid to do, but needed to be done, and no one else was. After a couple of seconds challenging me, his reaction quickly changed to announcing to the tour he was leading: "That's what I like, someone who just gets the job done!" (and off he went, I was not fired). I did not equate it at the time, but upon reflection, the really great promotion I was offered a few weeks later was just because at that time, I had the opportunity, and did show that I would just get the job done, and that's what he wanted. I was one of two people asked to give a eulogy at his funeral, and third, who dropped in to do so, was Max Ward.

Don't get taken advantage of, but do the job, and go a bit above if you can. You're not too good for any honorable job - for a while....

[tps8903]

I'm going to go waaay beyond the pale and suggest that you do whatever seems like the most fun. All roads lead to Rome in aviation. Out of the two possibilities you've presented us, neither one is a guarantee of future success, nor is it a limiting factor. My first season "on the dock" was a comp,ete and utter waste of time. I worked for a total shit-show of an outfitter/airline, didn't spend much time in a plane at all except for once or twice incidentally and also the time they crashed, which was not cool, but then again I wasn't hurt, and once I started flying a couple years later I certainly didn't ever make the mistake THAT guy did. Now I'm about 25 years into my career, and more or less equal to my contemporaries from my class at college. Some of them are doing better than me (like Jeff-Bezos-better), some of them aren't, but that doesn't have anything to do with that summer I spent on the dock. In fact, I learned some pretty key survival skills that summer. Like how to stow that quivering bottom lip and get the job done even when things aren't going your way. I remember one time I had to shrink-wrap a dock and sleep under it in a thunderstorm because we had finished the dock but not the cabin. I don't know. I guess I don't have any advice for you other than I don't think it matters what you do in your first year. It certainly doesn't matter to me!

+1.
Do what makes you HAPPY. Everything else will fall in place. We spend so much time planning our life sometimes we forget to stop and smell the roses, I've certainly been guilty of it at times in my life.

[MrAviator19]

Hi everyone,

In this current climate

Thanks

I'll say this... the "current climate" is more so for the experienced 1000+ hr pilots that are in high demand. At 200-250TT, you're in a pond with a lot of fish. Not saying it's completely impossible, but you'll need some good contacts to get you an interview for a flying position with any of the decent carriers up north. But then again, there might be companies that will hire you based on their operational demand.

What I've seen in the last year in my career though, there are a lot of 250 hr guys waiting to go flight line from ramp/dispatch at a lot of places up north. I, myself, did 4 months on the ground in rural Ontario, applied to and even cold-called a number of companies before scoring a couple of interviews through a solid reference of mine at two places, and finally getting the job at one of them. So my strategy was to keep applying while working on the ground and luckily my reference came through for me big time! I wouldn't be where I am today without their help for which I'll be forever grateful.

Keep applying, build contacts, and cold-call whoever you can. If it worked for me, it can work for you.

[jnoon]

People are going to tell you many different things that you should do. They will range anywhere from take a dock/ramp job, work hard and get noticed in a positive way, all the way up to dont settle for anything but a flying position. There are going to be people who look down on new pilots who take a dock/ramp position as their first job, and there will be people who commend people who take those jobs.

I've seen many friends and acquaintances get to their goals both ways (ramp and direct entry) some faster than others (4 or 5 years vs. 8-10). Its taken me 4 seasons of flying/ working in the Bush to get to a position I wouldn't have dreamed possible for at least 10 or more. Most of that was based on the path I chose. I knew I wanted to be a bush pilot, and fly floats. I did a season on the dock with a company that only had an otter. I worked hard, and at the end of the season I got a good reference letter. 3 weeks after being back home I got an email from another float operator asking me to be their 180 pilot. Skip ahead to this season, I'm going to be chief pilot. On the otherside, one of my close friends got a direct entry position with a small company in the north, 2 years with them, moved to a large regional in Manitoba has been there 2 years and is next inline for captain upgrade. So one route over the other isn't always the correct path for everyone. Networking and making connections will help you along, as well working hard and showing you want to achieve your goals more than the next person.

All that being said, I feel that if medevac is a goal of yours, heading north is a great opportunity to make that happen. Whether it is learning the unique challenges that flying as a whole in the north provides, making those connections, learning skills to help further you along. Also red lake (where cff is located) has many float operators and a few wheeled operators where either in the winter you can try to slide into or the following float season, even Sioux lookout isn't terribly far away with lots of opportunities once you have more time (handful of medevac companies) these are great ways to build time. Also northern Ontario is a beautiful place (sometimes hoth-like, but beautiful nonetheless)