Training Bonds...

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shimmydampner
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Re: Training Bonds...

Post by shimmydampner »

digits_ wrote: Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:51 pm In my opinion, bonds are a safety concern.
Well that's a bit dramatic.
I would venture to guess that if a pilot bails on a bond due to legitimate safety concerns, one of two things is going to happen. Either the company will pursue it legally and lose, as an employee has a right to refuse unsafe work, or they won't want their dirty secrets exposed and so, won't pursue it at all.
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AHerrera
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Re: Training Bonds...

Post by AHerrera »

I understand why companies bond people but just like there are some asshole pilots, there are asshole companies.
Where I work now, they make some pilots sign bonds who have been at the company a couple of years and are doing captain upgrades, and then others who are direct entry, they don't require a bond. And others still who are upgrading and not required to sign a bond. I find that so frustrating and demoralizing. A couple of recent captain upgrades signed bonds, accepted it and then once they completed the training, the company decided to come up with non-standard line indocs, with no absolute timeframe for completion and had the nerve to also refuse to pay the new upgrades as captains until they completed the non-specific, random line indoc. I would have no problem with either of those pilots telling the company to @#$! off and try to leave. They probably can't but its that sort of thing that ruins morale and loyalty. This at the same time as they hired direct entry captains with no bond, When I see things like this with my own eyes, it's pretty obvious that bonds are used to control pilots, limit their options so they comply and prevent complaints.
And when people say, "just don't sign it", it's not that easy. It's not easy to find a new job, move with your family, your wife to find a new job, your kid to go to a new school. Especially when a pilot has already signed and completed a bond previously at the same company.
I have lost respect for the management and it's sad.
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Chaxterium
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Re: Training Bonds...

Post by Chaxterium »

KenoraPilot wrote: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:56 am Voyageur Air 705 Bond is $15,000 for 1 year
Voyageur got rid of their bond so unless it has been re-instituted in the last couple of months, there is no bond. At all.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Training Bonds...

Post by iflyforpie »

AHerrera wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:30 pm And when people say, "just don't sign it", it's not that easy. It's not easy to find a new job, move with your family, your wife to find a new job, your kid to go to a new school. Especially when a pilot has already signed and completed a bond previously at the same company.
I have lost respect for the management and it's sad.
Am I to understand that refusal to sign a bond would result in your termination?

Aside from being highly unlikely... since now they’d have to attract, train, and hold onto an external hire of a possibly unknown quantity (vs yourself who’s familiar with company and operations and equipment and they are familiar with your work ethic and professionalism)... but quite likely illegal. This isn’t a term of employment like when you were first hired.

The diversity in bonding at your company is probably due to the pilot shortage and what candidates they can attract vs people they already have and have subjected themselves to their preferred conditions... and hoping that people don’t talk to each other about their remuneration or terms of employment. Negotiating skills are huge in a dynamic market like this one.

I’ve seen this at a few very reputable companies where new hires are treated like royalty while loyal staff are treated like dirt.

I’d politely tell them that I had already fulfilled my bond, that others are not bonded under the same condition, and that because of that you won’t be signing a bond.

The only two scenarios I can see coming from that are either they upgrade you with no bond, or they don’t upgrade you. I see the first scenario being more than likely because likely they likely desperately need captains.
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
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rookiepilot
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Re: Training Bonds...

Post by rookiepilot »

iflyforpie wrote: Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:34 pm
Negotiating skills are huge in
....everything.

Absolutely essential.
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ayseven
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Re: Training Bonds...

Post by ayseven »

I know this is old. But I have to comment. The world will not be the same if I don't.

Flying demands certain sacrifices, that never seem to end, but "you wanted to become a pilot; nobody made you do it".

In essence, the aviation companies are paying for your apprenticeship, and they don't want competitors benefiting from that. This is true in a lot of fields, even public high school teaching. The company takes a big chance when they hire an employee. Unfortunately, most of us are easily replaced. It never hurts though, to tell a person that they are a valued employee. That doesn't cost anything. "A day's wages for a day's work" is a murky concept.
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