Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

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twa22
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by twa22 » Fri May 17, 2019 2:08 pm

Shinyjetsyndrome wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 9:23 am
jt8d wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 5:13 pm
The T&C at Cathay are absolute sh!te.
You make more as a Cathay year 1 SO than a year 1-4 AC FO on flat pay (min guarantee ~$93k/year CAD) and this is on the CX D scale or COS18. Rent is higher but you’ll still be better off. If anything, we're fighting for better wages in Canada by leaving the country. Sure, it might get a bit boring sitting up front during cruise only, but for someone who wants to travel and see the world, this deal is amazing, especially for a 250 hour pilot! Personally, I'd much rather spend my layovers in Barcelona or Sydney than Kugluktuk! Not a wasteful career in my opinion, but a rather successful one.
This is basically my mentality... I have read through COS18, and even if you were to make the absolute bare minimum credit hours a month, the salary is around 61000/year CAD, not including the housing allowance. With the housing allowance, you are looking at around 90000 cad/year. Even with rent being 3500 - 4000 cad a month, 90000 a year is not bad IF you are young and single... hell it's the same thing as making 37000 (or whatever the base pay is now without per diems) at jazz and paying 1500-2000 a month for rent in Toronto. Even if I am a glorified computer monitor, I agree with shiny, i'd rather spend a layover in Frankfurt or Sydney then Timmins or Thunder Bay.

Again, nothing wrong with Jazz or spending time in Timmins, i'm just trying to put things in as neutral a perspective as possible. I know that people who hate CX will not see it any other way and will say run like the wind, but I will always keep an open mind and try to look at positives as much as possible, rather then always dwell on the negatives
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jt8d
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by jt8d » Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am

Alright bud... if you're getting overlooked in Canada in this hiring climate, I wouldn't hold my breath for Crappay Pacific... 90k in HK is no better than 37k in Canada. Go ahead and try it... but minimum 7 years in HK to finally get your first 2000TT is pathetic... then what? Realize HK for the rest of your life with these reduced T&C is depressing.. so you comeback for Air Canada. Hmm.. go ahead and try and sell your career short... you can tell stories to your 777 captain about your glorious cross country hours building days... cause that will sadly be the most fun you've had flying. As a canadian it makes NO sense to go to Crappay unless they were funding your CPL and all... keep job hunting and look into interview preps
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twa22
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by twa22 » Fri May 24, 2019 4:47 pm

jt8d wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am
Alright bud... if you're getting overlooked in Canada in this hiring climate, I wouldn't hold my breath for Crappay Pacific... 90k in HK is no better than 37k in Canada. Go ahead and try it... but minimum 7 years in HK to finally get your first 2000TT is pathetic... then what? Realize HK for the rest of your life with these reduced T&C is depressing.. so you comeback for Air Canada. Hmm.. go ahead and try and sell your career short... you can tell stories to your 777 captain about your glorious cross country hours building days... cause that will sadly be the most fun you've had flying. As a canadian it makes NO sense to go to Crappay unless they were funding your CPL and all... keep job hunting and look into interview preps
My only other backup at this point is the instructor rating i've started working on, so if you have an in somewhere and can help me get an interview i'm all for staying in Canada, otherwise I'll keep my head up and hope for the best if I do end up getting the job at CX.

I know i'm not the only low timer struggling to find that said first job without working at least 1 year on the ramp or instructing, so at this rate it's not like i'm going to get hired at AC much faster by staying in Canada.

Let's see

Instruct for 1 year, making 25k a year
Get 1000 hours, go to encore, jazz, or porter make 37-40k a year
Say I go to Jazz, my understanding from my buddies there is that you have to stay at least 2 years before you can move to AC through their PMA
Go to AC after around 3 years give or take, start at 55k year 1 flying narrow body
Do that for what, 2 years before you can go wide body?

So let's say 5 years before I can see a wide body at AC?

OR

Go up north, work ramp for 1 year making 30k a year
then fly some clapped out king air for at least 1 year making 30k
Get 1000 hours, go to encore, jazz, or porter, make 37-40k a year
Same story as above etc...

Wide body at AC in 5 to 6 years?


Yea, i'd rather be a glorified computer monitor for around 5 years in these deplorable conditions you speak, but at least i'll be traveling the world and not doing slow flight in the practice area, or flying to Attawapaskat in a king air, or doing Thunder Bay and Timmins runs in a Q400

Yea, you can go ahead and tell me "yea I told you so, blah blah"... I'm alright with that I can live with my decisions even after reading all the bad things everyone says about CX

For now, I have hopes I can do well in the interview and get the job, and if not, i'll go be an instructor
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by TeePeeCreeper » Fri May 24, 2019 6:08 pm

twa22 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:47 pm
jt8d wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am
Alright bud... if you're getting overlooked in Canada in this hiring climate, I wouldn't hold my breath for Crappay Pacific... 90k in HK is no better than 37k in Canada. Go ahead and try it... but minimum 7 years in HK to finally get your first 2000TT is pathetic... then what? Realize HK for the rest of your life with these reduced T&C is depressing.. so you comeback for Air Canada. Hmm.. go ahead and try and sell your career short... you can tell stories to your 777 captain about your glorious cross country hours building days... cause that will sadly be the most fun you've had flying. As a canadian it makes NO sense to go to Crappay unless they were funding your CPL and all... keep job hunting and look into interview preps
My only other backup at this point is the instructor rating i've started working on, so if you have an in somewhere and can help me get an interview i'm all for staying in Canada, otherwise I'll keep my head up and hope for the best if I do end up getting the job at CX.

I know i'm not the only low timer struggling to find that said first job without working at least 1 year on the ramp or instructing, so at this rate it's not like i'm going to get hired at AC much faster by staying in Canada.

Let's see

Instruct for 1 year, making 25k a year
Get 1000 hours, go to encore, jazz, or porter make 37-40k a year
Say I go to Jazz, my understanding from my buddies there is that you have to stay at least 2 years before you can move to AC through their PMA
Go to AC after around 3 years give or take, start at 55k year 1 flying narrow body
Do that for what, 2 years before you can go wide body?

So let's say 5 years before I can see a wide body at AC?

OR

Go up north, work ramp for 1 year making 30k a year
then fly some clapped out king air for at least 1 year making 30k
Get 1000 hours, go to encore, jazz, or porter, make 37-40k a year
Same story as above etc...

Wide body at AC in 5 to 6 years?


Yea, i'd rather be a glorified computer monitor for around 5 years in these deplorable conditions you speak, but at least i'll be traveling the world and not doing slow flight in the practice area, or flying to Attawapaskat in a king air, or doing Thunder Bay and Timmins runs in a Q400

Yea, you can go ahead and tell me "yea I told you so, blah blah"... I'm alright with that I can live with my decisions even after reading all the bad things everyone says about CX

For now, I have hopes I can do well in the interview and get the job, and if not, i'll go be an instructor
Your thought process is skewered to say the least.

Good luck to you, and for what it’s worth, I believe that you’ve overlooked some solid advise from the above posters...

Don’t cut corners at this stage, looks are far more appetizing than the final result will be....
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DanWEC
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by DanWEC » Fri May 24, 2019 6:51 pm

Well, you're certainly looking ahead.

I have 3 things to say:
-Nothing is going to go to plan any further than 6 months out. Even that is a stretch.
-If you just try and get a job like that overseas and skip the "horrors" of flying a King Air, you'll not only be a sub-par pilot compared to your colleagues here by 2k hrs but you also won't have any good stories to tell.
-Enjoy your current job (Whenever you get it.) You're flying planes. If you aren't happy at your current job, odds are you won't be happy at the next.

Cheers
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twa22
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by twa22 » Fri May 24, 2019 7:09 pm

Solid advice guys, duly noted

Cheers
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Ki-ll
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Ki-ll » Fri May 24, 2019 7:55 pm

twa22 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:47 pm
My only other backup at this point is the instructor rating i've started working on, so if you have an in somewhere and can help me get an interview i'm all for staying in Canada, otherwise I'll keep my head up and hope for the best if I do end up getting the job at CX.

I know i'm not the only low timer struggling to find that said first job without working at least 1 year on the ramp or instructing, so at this rate it's not like i'm going to get hired at AC much faster by staying in Canada.

Let's see

Instruct for 1 year, making 25k a year
Get 1000 hours, go to encore, jazz, or porter make 37-40k a year
Say I go to Jazz, my understanding from my buddies there is that you have to stay at least 2 years before you can move to AC through their PMA
Go to AC after around 3 years give or take, start at 55k year 1 flying narrow body
Do that for what, 2 years before you can go wide body?

So let's say 5 years before I can see a wide body at AC?

OR

Go up north, work ramp for 1 year making 30k a year
then fly some clapped out king air for at least 1 year making 30k
Get 1000 hours, go to encore, jazz, or porter, make 37-40k a year
Same story as above etc...

Wide body at AC in 5 to 6 years?


Yea, i'd rather be a glorified computer monitor for around 5 years in these deplorable conditions you speak, but at least i'll be traveling the world and not doing slow flight in the practice area, or flying to Attawapaskat in a king air, or doing Thunder Bay and Timmins runs in a Q400

Yea, you can go ahead and tell me "yea I told you so, blah blah"... I'm alright with that I can live with my decisions even after reading all the bad things everyone says about CX

For now, I have hopes I can do well in the interview and get the job, and if not, i'll go be an instructor
Ask around to see how long it took to get to a WB at AC a decade ago, that'll give you some perspective.
People used to be on reserve for years before they could even hold a block on the narrowbody.
Some perspective is in order.
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The De-Icer
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by The De-Icer » Fri May 24, 2019 10:52 pm

twa22 wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 4:47 pm
jt8d wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am
Alright bud... if you're getting overlooked in Canada in this hiring climate, I wouldn't hold my breath for Crappay Pacific... 90k in HK is no better than 37k in Canada. Go ahead and try it... but minimum 7 years in HK to finally get your first 2000TT is pathetic... then what? Realize HK for the rest of your life with these reduced T&C is depressing.. so you comeback for Air Canada. Hmm.. go ahead and try and sell your career short... you can tell stories to your 777 captain about your glorious cross country hours building days... cause that will sadly be the most fun you've had flying. As a canadian it makes NO sense to go to Crappay unless they were funding your CPL and all... keep job hunting and look into interview preps
My only other backup at this point is the instructor rating i've started working on, so if you have an in somewhere and can help me get an interview i'm all for staying in Canada, otherwise I'll keep my head up and hope for the best if I do end up getting the job at CX.

I know i'm not the only low timer struggling to find that said first job without working at least 1 year on the ramp or instructing, so at this rate it's not like i'm going to get hired at AC much faster by staying in Canada.

Let's see

Instruct for 1 year, making 25k a year
Get 1000 hours, go to encore, jazz, or porter make 37-40k a year
Say I go to Jazz, my understanding from my buddies there is that you have to stay at least 2 years before you can move to AC through their PMA
Go to AC after around 3 years give or take, start at 55k year 1 flying narrow body
Do that for what, 2 years before you can go wide body?

So let's say 5 years before I can see a wide body at AC?

OR

Go up north, work ramp for 1 year making 30k a year
then fly some clapped out king air for at least 1 year making 30k
Get 1000 hours, go to encore, jazz, or porter, make 37-40k a year
Same story as above etc...

Wide body at AC in 5 to 6 years?


Yea, i'd rather be a glorified computer monitor for around 5 years in these deplorable conditions you speak, but at least i'll be traveling the world and not doing slow flight in the practice area, or flying to Attawapaskat in a king air, or doing Thunder Bay and Timmins runs in a Q400

Yea, you can go ahead and tell me "yea I told you so, blah blah"... I'm alright with that I can live with my decisions even after reading all the bad things everyone says about CX

For now, I have hopes I can do well in the interview and get the job, and if not, i'll go be an instructor
Go to Cathay. Don’t come to jazz. I don’t want to fly with you and your whining about real work (actual airplane flying). Don’t go to AC, they don’t want to hear it either. And don’t instruct, your students are looking for positive guidance and an instructor who has experience FLYING airplanes.

Doesn’t sound like that’s an issue as you clearly haven’t put in the actual work (kissing ass, sweeping floors, tossing bags, de-icing at -40) to get a flying job anyways.

Good luck doing fuel calcs!
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jt8d
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by jt8d » Sat May 25, 2019 9:18 am

You should of become an accountant! All your decision making seems to be quantitative based. Do you really have a passion to fly? Honestly, skip instructing and go work the ramp for a year... just like flat pay at AC, it's a means to an end... suck it up.
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Speedalive
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Speedalive » Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 am

jt8d wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am
90k in HK is no better than 37k in Canada. Go ahead and try it...
Ok.. here's a comparison based on minimum pay (minimum guarantee, no per diems, etc).

Jazz First Officer

Pay:
Hourly rate (based on 2% pay increase): $39.74/hr
Minimum monthly guarantee: 77.5 hrs --> pulled from airline pilot central
Yearly Pay: $36,958.2‬0
After tax:
- YVR: $30,236
- YYC: $29,920 (is this an error? Lower than BC!)
- YYZ: $29,876
- YUL: $28,592

Cost of living (based on Montreal for best cost of living scenario)
Rent: $800-1500/mo depending on where you live
Utilities: Average is $100/mo
Internet: $60/mo
Phone plan: $50/mo (Bell unlimited calling + 6GB data)
Food: Could probably do $75-100/week if disciplined (‭325‬-433.34/mo)
Transit pass: $85/mo or if you have a car, gas is sitting at $1.35
Entertainment: $200/mo

Monthly costs: $1,620‬ - 2,428.34 (if you use transit)
Monthly Pay: $2,382.67
Money left over/month: $-45.67 - 762.67‬

Keep in mind that with 250TT, you'll have to pay for 50 hours of PIC that PICUS won't cover if you ever want to upgrade...

Sources:
Pay: http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 71905a.pdf and https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... anada_jazz
Tax: https://simpletax.ca/calculator
Cost of living: https://www.zumper.com/apartments-for-rent/montreal-qc https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Montreal https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPrices/Quebec/Montreal https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/montreal https://www.planhub.ca/quebec

Cathay Pacific Second Officer

Pay:
Basic Annual Salary: $376,600 HKD
Monthly Pilot Allowance: $14,000 HKD
Yearly pay: $544,000 HKD or $93,162.72 CAD
After tax (single individual with no dependants): $491,960 HKD or $84,250.61 CAD‬

Minimum monthly block hours (For info only, not part of comparison)
777: 51.33 hrs (paid $611.36 HKD or $104.70 CAD/hr over that)
CX Airbus: 49 hrs (paid $640.48 HKD or $109.69 CAD/hr over that)
747: 42.29 hrs (paid $742.07 HKD or $127.08 CAD/hr over that)

Cost of living (all in $CAD)
Rent: $2500 - 3500/mo depending on where you live
Utilities: Average is $250/mo
Internet: $35/mo
Phone plan: $50/mo (3 Hong Kong unlimited calling + 5GB data)
Food: $200/week ($866.67/mo)
Transit pass: $70-110/mo (depending on the line you use) or if you have a car, gas is sitting at $2.99
Entertainment: $300/mo

Monthly costs: $4,071.67 - 5,111.67‬ (if you use transit)
Monthly Pay: $7,020.88
Money left over/month: $1,909.21 - 2949.21

Sources:
Pay: See attached.
Tax: https://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/ese/st_comp_ ... stcfrm.htm
Cost of living: https://www.squarefoot.com.hk/en/rent/ https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/hong-kong https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... =Hong+Kong https://www.three.com.hk/en/home.html http://www.mtr.com.hk/en/customer/ticke ... extra.html https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Hong ... ne_prices/

EDITED: Grocery costs
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Last edited by Speedalive on Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

Skykiwi
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Skykiwi » Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:25 pm

So Speedalive, twa etc. its only about money? I would think that any newly branded commercial pilot would be hungry to fly airplanes - who gives a crap where or what. At CX you will not fly an airplane of any kind until approximately 5 years of watching numbers pass by on the screen. Then it’s takeoff, select autopilot (cuz you are terrified of busting any altitude / track), disengage at 500 ft with the aircraft configured and trimmed, land (good luck squeeking it on after absolutely zero flying experience). Repeat for the next 40 years. Sounds like a blast to me - not. Go live a little - flying in Canada is fantastic, North, east west each has it’s own unique characteristics. I can’t think of a better place to hone your talents and build up a toolbox of experience. Nothing compares to seat of your pants flying - isn’t that what got you interested in the first place?

If you are so focused on money go get a degree in computer science or engineering and push your wheelbarrow of $$$ to the bank each month. Better yet go be a plumber. Oh and good luck surviving in HKG on $100 month for food.
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wirez
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by wirez » Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:41 pm

Speedalive wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 9:29 am
jt8d wrote:
Fri May 24, 2019 8:54 am
90k in HK is no better than 37k in Canada. Go ahead and try it...
Ok.. here's a comparison based on minimum pay (minimum guarantee, no per diems, etc).

Jazz First Officer

Pay:
Hourly rate (based on 2% pay increase): $39.74/hr
Minimum monthly guarantee: 77.5 hrs --> pulled from airline pilot central
Yearly Pay: $36,958.2‬0
After tax:
- YVR: $30,236
- YYC: $29,920 (is this an error? Lower than BC!)
- YYZ: $29,876
- YUL: $28,592

Cost of living (based on Montreal for best cost of living scenario)
Rent: $800-1500/mo depending on where you live
Utilities: Average is $100/mo
Internet: $60/mo
Phone plan: $50/mo (Bell unlimited calling + 6GB data)
Food: Could probably do $75-100/mo if disciplined
Transit pass: $85/mo or if you have a car, gas is sitting at $1.35
Entertainment: $200/mo

Monthly costs: $1370 - 2095.00 (if you use transit)
Monthly Pay: $2,382.67
Money left over/month: $287.67 - 1,012.67‬

Keep in mind that with 250TT, you'll have to pay for 50 hours of PIC that PICUS won't cover if you ever want to upgrade...

Sources:
Pay: http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 71905a.pdf and https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... anada_jazz
Tax: https://simpletax.ca/calculator
Cost of living: https://www.zumper.com/apartments-for-rent/montreal-qc https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Montreal https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPrices/Quebec/Montreal https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/montreal https://www.planhub.ca/quebec

Cathay Pacific Second Officer

Pay:
Basic Annual Salary: $376,600 HKD
Monthly Pilot Allowance: $14,000 HKD
Yearly pay: $544,000 HKD or $93,162.72 CAD
After tax (single individual with no dependants): $491,960 HKD or $84,250.61 CAD‬

Minimum monthly block hours (For info only, not part of comparison)
777: 51.33 hrs (paid $611.36 HKD or $104.70 CAD/hr over that)
CX Airbus: 49 hrs (paid $640.48 HKD or $109.69 CAD/hr over that)
747: 42.29 hrs (paid $742.07 HKD or $127.08 CAD/hr over that)

Cost of living (all in $CAD)
Rent: $2500 - 3500/mo depending on where you live
Utilities: Average is $250/mo
Internet: $35/mo
Phone plan: $50/mo (3 Hong Kong unlimited calling + 5GB data)
Food: $100-150/mo
Transit pass: $70-110/mo (depending on the line you use) or if you have a car, gas is sitting at $2.99
Entertainment: $300/mo

Monthly costs: $3305 - 4395 (if you use transit)
Monthly Pay: $7,020.88
Money left over/month: $2,625.88 - 3,715.88‬

Sources:
Pay: See attached.
Tax: https://www.ird.gov.hk/eng/ese/st_comp_ ... stcfrm.htm
Cost of living: https://www.squarefoot.com.hk/en/rent/ https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/hong-kong https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/c ... =Hong+Kong https://www.three.com.hk/en/home.html http://www.mtr.com.hk/en/customer/ticke ... extra.html https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Hong ... ne_prices/
You’ve grossly underestimated food costs. A week of groceries in HK will set you back at least $200 already. Unless you’re keen on eating from dai pai dong regularly.
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Speedalive
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by Speedalive » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:17 am

wirez wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:41 pm
You’ve grossly underestimated food costs. A week of groceries in HK will set you back at least $200 already. Unless you’re keen on eating from dai pai dong regularly.
Thank you, I appreciate the correction. The figures I wrote down were for groceries per week and clearly I clearly failed to adjust them to a monthly figure! :lol:
Skykiwi wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:25 pm
So Speedalive, twa etc. its only about money?
Negative. Read the quote I was replying to.
Skykiwi wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:25 pm
I would think that any newly branded commercial pilot would be hungry to fly airplanes - who gives a crap where or what.
Flying up North does sound like a blast, but so does this opportunity, and I'm certainly not going to let it pass by. I'm in aviation because I want to travel and explore this giant planet. I'd like to do that while I'm young and Cathay appears to be a great way to get a head start on that. Life isn't all about the flying. Don't get me wrong, I love flying, but at the end of the day, an airplane is an airplane. I respect your opinion on this, but I do not share it. If I don't get the job, which is highly probable, I will probably have no choice but to go North anyways and I won't have an issue with it.
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jayme
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Re: Logging cruise relief time outside of Canada

Post by jayme » Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:38 pm

Speedalive,

I've been around a little. I'm settled in my job and am not interested in swaying you one way or the other. I had a brush with Cathay and didn't go but don't know if that was the right decision or not, but I'm inclined to agree with your logic.

What did you decide?
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