Retirement age.

[Diadem]

Then you old guys better not complain anymore about how young people are lazy and don't want to work. It's a lot harder to work when people keep working into their 70s and occupying jobs that used to open up when employees hit 65.

[C.W.E.]

It's a lot harder to work when people keep working into their 70s and occupying jobs that used to open up when employees hit 65.

What jobs are you talking about?

[C.W.E.]

I have another question.

At what age should a pilot not be allowed to fly commercially?

The reason I am asking is I am thinking of going back to work part time as a pilot and for sure I am over 65.

[laserstrike]

I have another question.

At what age should a pilot not be allowed to fly commercially?

The reason I am asking is I am thinking of going back to work part time as a pilot and for sure I am over 65.

Commercially with lives at risk? 70. Provided you are held to strict fitness standards.

In a 705 airline environment? 65 is more than enough. Some of the pilots I've worked with that were a few years below that age were already pushing it... For various reasons including health/eyesight, overall ability to act quickly and maintain proper situational awareness and understand new technology. One of the biggest issues I find on the line is the inability to act in a quick and decisive manner. It's proven that with age, cognitive ability decreases.

There will always be people who are healthy and fit, smart and ready to go after that age but in my experience there aren't enough to consider increasing the retirement age yet again.

Anyone who says that the fly to 65 group initiative was not driven by greed, greed of an extra 5 years at top wage payscale is naive.

65 is enough. Take your fat pension and million extra bucks 5 years got you and give up the reigns for the next generations.

The above is just my opinion, feel free to disagree with it.

[trey kule]

As I understand your argument laser, you feel that the over 60s should give up their jobs....so you and those like you can get to bigger checks faster. Is that about right?

What entitles you more to the higher wage than the pilot you want to put out to pasture? Other than you want their job. That seems to me to be afairly clear piece of entitled greed.

It would be interesting to get your perspective again when you hit 60. But of course you will just step out of the way and retire.

[laserstrike]

As I understand your argument laser, you feel that the over 60s should give up their jobs....so you and those like you can get to bigger checks faster. Is that about right?

What entitles you more to the higher wage than the pilot you want to put out to pasture? Other than you want their job. That seems to me to be afairly clear piece of entitled greed.

It would be interesting to get your perspective again when you hit 60. But of course you will just step out of the way and retire.

I have no intention to work until 65.

[C.W.E.]

Commercially with lives at risk? 70. Provided you are held to strict fitness standards.

I hold an ATPL and a valid Class 1 medical.

Does that meet the fitness standards laserstrike?

I have no intention to work until 65.

What does that have to do with the rest of us?

[Old fella]

Then you old guys better not complain anymore about how young people are lazy and don't want to work. It's a lot harder to work when people keep working into their 70s and occupying jobs that used to open up when employees hit 65.

In my experience being retired for some years, I can honestly say I can think of very very few that I am acquainted with who stayed working with fully paid up pensions because they loved their job. The vast majority want out if they can see themselves clear with decent income, honestly we tire of the working shit, seen and heard it all. It is out of necessity the working stiffs stay for all sorts of reasons that I am sure we all know. No, I am not of the view the much younger generation(s) are lazy and not interested in working, ambitious yes maybe in cases to much so, they want that left-seat airline job like today. Finally the younger just starting demographic is a hell of a lot smaller than it was in my starting times in ‘70s. Jobs will be there for them despite old fools my age(70)who still want their airline seats( shudder, shudder).

[laserstrike]

Then you old guys better not complain anymore about how young people are lazy and don't want to work. It's a lot harder to work when people keep working into their 70s and occupying jobs that used to open up when employees hit 65.

In my experience being retired for some years, I can honestly say I can think of very very few that I am acquainted with who stayed working with fully paid up pensions because they loved their job. The vast majority want out if they can see themselves clear with decent income, honestly we tire of the working shit, seen and heard it all. It is out of necessity the working stiffs stay for all sorts of reasons that I am sure we all know. No, I am not of the view the much younger generation(s) are lazy and not interested in working, ambitious yes maybe in cases to much so, they want that left-seat airline job like today. Finally the younger just starting demographic is a hell of a lot smaller than it was in my starting times in ‘70s. Jobs will be there for them despite old fools my age(70)who still want their airline seats( shudder, shudder).

To be fair I personally want to just see progression. I don't want a left seat right now or in the next few years. But there are many people above me who do and by them moving on it creates movement though the whole list and improves the lives of everyone.

[C.W.E.]

There are many other types of flying besides flying for an airline in fact for some of us these jobs are more desirable.

Do you think there should be an age limit for us laserstrike?

This comment by you puts me in the category where I should not be allowed to fly for pay anymore.

Commercially with lives at risk? 70. Provided you are held to strict fitness standards.

I would like to know how you can make such a statement, care to explain your thought process?

[laserstrike]

There are many other types of flying besides flying for an airline in fact for some of us these jobs are more desirable.

Do you think there should be an age limit for us laserstrike?

This comment by you puts me in the category where I should not be allowed to fly for pay anymore.

Commercially with lives at risk? 70. Provided you are held to strict fitness standards.

I would like to know how you can make such a statement, care to explain your thought process?

Yes. Older folks have a higher chance of things like strokes and heart attacks. Even perfectly healthy individuals. If you are flying yourself around, no problem. Well... Other than people on the ground.

[Diadem]

The generations prior to the Baby Boomers tended to retire (or die) before reaching 65, thereby opening jobs to younger workers. Air Canada used to mandate retirements at 60, thus opening positions for younger pilots. Baby Boomers are clinging to their jobs longer and longer, as demonstrated by the fly-past-60 pilots, meaning that those of us coming after are going to have to work longer and harder to be able to retire at all; I don't want to work past 60, but I might have to because the high-paying opportunities are still full.
Here's an example: a pilot born in 1950 joined AC in 1980 at age 30. At the time, the retirement age was 60, so realistically (s)he could expect to work there for thirty years and retire in 2010, and (s)he could advance as those higher on the seniority list retired at 60. Instead, (s)he sued to keep working and keep occupying a seat for five years longer than every previous generation. In the meantime, a pilot hoping to join AC in 2010 at age 30 would have to wait another five years for that position to open, and would have to work until 65 to earn as much during his/her time at AC as all those previous generations that were able to retire at 60. If everyone ahead of you retired at the same age and allowed you to advance, but you've kept working, you're depriving younger workers of opportunities that you had and forcing them to work longer than they want.
Baby boomers are holding onto jobs a lot longer than previous generations: https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/06/ar ... bs/372652/ Part of it is living longer, and part is absolutely abysmal financial planning that has left many without the option to retire, but the latter shouldn't be a factor for a pilot making hundreds of thousands a year. That's just greed. From the article:

The average retirement age is now 62—five years older than it was two decades ago.

That's five years of younger workers left unable to climb the ladder so they can start to make decent wages. In the meantime, they're left in menial positions earning low incomes for far longer than previous generations as they wait for positions in the fields in which they trained to open. Those under forty are spending far more on education, making less money, and spending more on housing than their parents and grandparents, and might never be able to save enough to retire. All so some boomers can make another million...

[rookiepilot]

Every man (woman) -- and generation for themselves.

You ain't seen nothing yet, I think, in this regard.

This won't be popular to hear, but the retirement system is slowly bankrupting.

[C.W.E.]

Yes. Older folks have a higher chance of things like strokes and heart attacks. Even perfectly healthy individuals. If you are flying yourself around, no problem. Well... Other than people on the ground.

So my ATPL is no longer valid in your opinion?

Should I quit driving my car as well, using your thought process I could kill a lot of people if I have a stroke driving in my car.

I was seriously thinking of doing some flight training in my J3 Cub teaching the basics of flying to licensed pilots, do you think that that I could do that for pay?

Or due to my age I might not remember how to teach?

[laserstrike]

The generations prior to the Baby Boomers tended to retire (or die) before reaching 65, thereby opening jobs to younger workers. Air Canada used to mandate retirements at 60, thus opening positions for younger pilots. Baby Boomers are clinging to their jobs longer and longer, as demonstrated by the fly-past-60 pilots, meaning that those of us coming after are going to have to work longer and harder to be able to retire at all; I don't want to work past 60, but I might have to because the high-paying opportunities are still full.
Here's an example: a pilot born in 1950 joined AC in 1980 at age 30. At the time, the retirement age was 60, so realistically (s)he could expect to work there for thirty years and retire in 2010, and (s)he could advance as those higher on the seniority list retired at 60. Instead, (s)he sued to keep working and keep occupying a seat for five years longer than every previous generation. In the meantime, a pilot hoping to join AC in 2010 at age 30 would have to wait another five years for that position to open, and would have to work until 65 to earn as much during his/her time at AC as all those previous generations that were able to retire at 60. If everyone ahead of you retired at the same age and allowed you to advance, but you've kept working, you're depriving younger workers of opportunities that you had and forcing them to work longer than they want.
Baby boomers are holding onto jobs a lot longer than previous generations: https://www.citylab.com/life/2014/06/ar ... bs/372652/ Part of it is living longer, and part is absolutely abysmal financial planning that has left many without the option to retire, but the latter shouldn't be a factor for a pilot making hundreds of thousands a year. That's just greed. From the article:

The average retirement age is now 62—five years older than it was two decades ago.

That's five years of younger workers left unable to climb the ladder so they can start to make decent wages. In the meantime, they're left in menial positions earning low incomes for far longer than previous generations as they wait for positions in the fields in which they trained to open. Those under forty are spending far more on education, making less money, and spending more on housing than their parents and grandparents, and might never be able to save enough to retire. All so some boomers can make another million...

And it's not just aviation.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

If you are not satisfied with your life, look at yourself and stop blaming others for holding up your progression.
This thread reeks of millennial self entitlement.

[laserstrike]

If you are not satisfied with your life, look at yourself and stop blaming others for holding up your progression.
This thread reeks of millennial self entitlement.

1) I'm not a millennial.

2) I love how everyone is so quick to assume I'm a millennial, yet completely ignores the self entitlement of the boomers and the fly to 65 group.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

I never said you were a millennial. Just that the attitude of wanting everyone to help your life improve is a stereotypical characteristic of said group.

[laserstrike]

Whatever you say.

[Diadem]

If you are not satisfied with your life, look at yourself and stop blaming others for holding up your progression.
This thread reeks of millennial self entitlement.

I don't expect anyone to help me, and where I am in my career is a result of the decisions that I've made. But when Boomers refuse to retire and then turn around and complain about how their kids aren't working hard enough to make as much money as they did at the same age, it pisses me off. Boomers are upset that their kids live at home well into their twenties and can't afford mortgages in their thirties, and I constantly hear remarks about how men aren't men anymore because their wives have to work; both spouses have to work because wages have stagnated for younger workers and housing is completely unaffordable. Boomers have caused a huge problem for Gen Xs, Millenials, and Gen Zs, and then bitch and complain about how everyone younger than themselves is lazy and incompetent.