YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

Post Reply
WinnipegAirport1
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:53 am

YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by WinnipegAirport1 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:55 am

Winnipeg Airports Authority is reviewing the method of collecting landing fees and infrastructure fees for General Aviation.

To get a more fulsome picture, we want to reach out to general aviation pilots on the AVCanada forum and find out what you think.

Currently, GA pilots/owners receive an invoice for landing and infrastructure fees from Winnipeg Airport several weeks following the arrival/departure. We are contemplating a move to best practices where the FBO collects these fees on our behalf, at the time of the visit, together with the FBO service fees.

While this is best practice at many other airports globally, we want to confirm that this is desirable and convenient for our customers.
We are taking all feedback into consideration and look forward to making this process better for our customers.
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2233
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by digits_ » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:01 am

Sounds like a good idea, but what will happen to planes that don't use an FBO?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Liftdump
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2004 9:34 pm
Location: Earth

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by Liftdump » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:48 am

This is a no brainer. Just do it
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
JasonE
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 547
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by JasonE » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:51 pm

Why not just drop the GA fees altogether? I never fly into airports with landing fees.
---------- ADS -----------
  
"Carelessness and overconfidence are more dangerous than deliberately accepted risk." -Wilbur Wright

Dry Guy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:44 pm

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by Dry Guy » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:34 pm

Nobodies paying the bills you mail them are they.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Jet Jockey
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 8:42 am
Location: CYUL

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by Jet Jockey » Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:20 pm

I have no problem with the FBOs collecting the fees.
---------- ADS -----------
  

ShawnR
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:28 am

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by ShawnR » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:02 pm

As JasoneE says, I avoid airports with landing fees for our GA aircraft. You probably charge a good amount to the FBO's already for operating at your complex. With landing fees, I won't go and who suffers? , your FBO's. It costs nothing to have GA aircraft land there. Your controllers are on site anyways. Obviously, the landing fees for small aircraft are an attempt to add to the bottom line but really, adding those costs really discourages General aviation, therefore, affecting the FBO'S . Perhaps losing that market won't make a difference and you don't care, so then why not encourage it and support the customers you already have, fuel, food, maintenance, avionics, etc...promote yourself as a GA friendly destination.

We in GA constantly get hit with more fees, and then we talk about the waning number of GA aircraft, how costly it is to get into. ....

How about if you are not commercial, no landing fee. ..? Or if you buy fuel or lunch or get work done on site, no fee, stay for the weekend? Rent a car? Take the wife shopping...,, no fee.

Geez, support tourism! Be GA friendly!

Sorry, my rant. ...
---------- ADS -----------
  

jakeandelwood
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 252
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:45 pm

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by jakeandelwood » Sat Jun 22, 2019 1:34 am

Lemme guess, your accountant crunched some numbers and your trying to cut the cost of stamps.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Kejidog
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 117
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:55 pm

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by Kejidog » Sat Jun 22, 2019 6:05 am

I totally agree with ShawnR

GA is looked at as being a cash cow for some people. I personally will avoid an airport that has landing fees. There are many that don’t charge just use them. As to “expense” incurred for landing it’s a bit of a joke. We already pay for Nav Can every year so theres that. But good luck driving away business.
---------- ADS -----------
  

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1594
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:45 am

If the slots are busy and you want to discourage GA traffic, then sure, make sure you collect landing fees. FBO could work for this.

If you have room and want to make revenue off GA traffic, let them land for free, then sell gas, rent cars, other FBO services, etc.
Landing fees are like toll roads, people avoid them.

FWIW, CJB3 is right there with avgas. No fancy FBO, but no landing fees.
---------- ADS -----------
  

digits_
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2233
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:26 am

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by digits_ » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:39 am

Maybe let's not get too aggressive here. I for one really like and appreciate an airport posting here to aks for feedback. It would be a shame to scare other airports off. So go CYWG!

Another thing to consider is the used definition of "general aviation". From an airport point of view, I assume that everything that isn't scheduled airlines or military flying, is considered general aviation. That includes a big chunk of medevac flying, corporate (based and visiting) and the small stuff, which people here probably consider general aviation.

Is it unfair to charge landing fees for big corporate jets?
Is it unfair to charge landing fees for medevac traffic that expects/requests priority handling on every flight?

In an ideal world, landing fees wouldn't be necessary. On the other hand, FBOs are very fuel price sensitive. Cheaper fuel attracts more planes. If they have to add a percentage to their fuel price to pay for the "free" landing fees, some might shoot themselves in the foot that way.

Let's be honest here, when flying a 172, you'd have to add a 20% markup to the fuel price to get your landing fee money back. Would you pay that? Or would you land with lots of fuel, skip the fuelling and leave again when your business is done? It's a tough one.

On the other hand, as posted before, how much money does the airport really make on a small plane. Is it worth the hassle to collect fees at all? If one 172 visitor is impressed by the airport and buys a king air a few years from now, you'll make way more than any small airplane landing fee would.

If you want to generate more income from general aviation, I'd suggest building some hangar space. You could rent out space like that. Your hangar will be rented out before the foundation is finished. There's a big shortage of hangar space in the CYWG area.
---------- ADS -----------
  

enigma
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by enigma » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:18 pm

ShawnR wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:02 pm
Your controllers are on site anyways.
The airport authority doesn’t employ any controllers!

You and I and every other pilot employs the controllers!

BTW, Nav Canada are currently telling people at their seminars that there are NO LANDING fees for GA aircraft and are promoting the idea of doing touch and goes and circuits at YWG!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Fueller
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by Fueller » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:23 am

When you go from one tax collector to multiple with a less vested interest a lot of taxes go uncollected.
---------- ADS -----------
  

enigma
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:14 pm

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by enigma » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:53 am

ShawnR wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:02 pm
Your controllers are on site anyways.
YWG doesn't employ any controllers. Nav Canada does. YWG doesn't pay any controllers. You and I and our employers pay the controllers. :evil:

Nav Canada is currently telling everyone at their public seminars that YWG doesn't charge any fee [for private aircraft?? not stated] and pilots are welcome to fly in, do touch and goes or circuits.

Something doesn't jive. :roll:
---------- ADS -----------
  

WinnipegAirport1
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:53 am

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by WinnipegAirport1 » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:04 am

Hi everyone,
Thanks for your feedback – we consider all of it helpful, and for us at WAA, remaining GA-friendly is our goal.

As we continue to research and develop the best method to collect landing and infrastructure fees for General Aviation, we will be in contact with other pertinent parties to advise of any changes.

Though we won’t be monitoring this thread regularly, we’re happy to hear any additional feedback or context that you may have regarding GA as a whole. With that in mind, you’re welcome to reach out to comments@waa.ca.
---------- ADS -----------
  

pelmet
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 4085
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Re: YWG collection of landing fees for General Aviation

Post by pelmet » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:19 pm

Why don’t give an answer to the suggestion that you help Genav by waiving fees and encouraging them to use the airport for all but touch and goes.

The understanding as published could be all major aircraft takes priority and that we will hold on the ground or in the air so as to not cause disruptions. Ideally, the FBO’s would benefit.

I suspect we won’t get a reply.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”