New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

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New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by photofly » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:08 pm

NavCanada has announced that from 10 October, all NOTAMs will be in ICAO format, and no longer available on the weather website. Instead you'll have to get them here:

https://plan.navcanada.ca/wxrecall/

I'm not sure it's an improvement from a usability point of view. Anyone else want to comment?
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by lownslow » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:50 pm

Oh good, we’ve finally adopted the worst part of US flight planning.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by photofly » Mon Sep 16, 2019 6:52 pm

On the plus side, the new NOTAM format has more meta-information like altitudes, IFR/VFR, importance flags - so it might be possible to filter out some of the clutter. The new website doesn't appear to allow that yet, but perhaps it will.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by goingnowherefast » Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:03 pm

Very awkward on a cell phones, almost unusable.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by Cleared4TheOption » Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:49 am

There are some things I like about it, like easily flipping through GFAs and radar, but there is so much that is broken.

Problems I see after just a couple minutes:

- If you are going to multiple airports in the same area, you get EVERYTHING repeated for each airport. So 3 airports means 3x the same GFAs, radar, upper winds, notams, etc.

- Notams are even worse to read through than they are now. The FIR and National notams are just thrown into the mix without any logic. How the heck am I going to find the single runway closure or airspace restriction without dedicating 30 minutes to sifting through 100+ lines of repeated notams.

- As far as I can see there is no way to select what information to print, especially important for getting the real information out of the notams.


The few good things:

- All weather on the same page including images

- Flipping through charts

- Searching with keywords


What is missing and really shouldn't be:

- Reordering the information (simply dragging the sections on the sidebar to the order you prefer)

- Selecting which sections or information to print and/or show/hide buttons

- Excluding notams by keyword (when has any pilot ever in the history of aviation found any use from "OBST LT U/S")

- Selection of notams by classification (if only to group them); airspace, communication, hey we Fed up the approach plates again, obstacles, aerodromes (fuel, rsc, closures etc)

- Resizing of graphical products to better fit the screen (which should be auto resized to fit when printing)


Does nobody give a crap about their work these days? Is the person in charge of this project really oblivious to what user friendly means or how pilots actually use this information? Or is this just another case of rushing something out the door waaaaaay before it's ready? I am not looking forward to using this in it's current state.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by gustind » Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:14 am

Just stick to www.zuluforpilots.com

It is an official source of NOTAMs with a direct line from their servers to the National NOTAM Centre in Canada. Last time I had a tour at YXU FSS the guy was telling me how they are more inclined to use this website because it is easier to read and disseminate information quickly compared to their internal system.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by dougj » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:37 pm

My first try at this new Notam site for an airport in southern Ontario ?: Top of the list was that a weather balloon was launched in TImmins (300nm away) , and half way down the list was that the minister has banned 737 MAXs from Canadian airspace. Very useful information! I am weary already.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by JasonE » Wed Sep 18, 2019 9:03 pm

Oh great, I see we've finally made things worse!
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by co-joe » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:12 pm

Brutal. Look at YEG to see just how dumb a Notam file can be. 52 Notams to sift through and no way to only print the ones that apply to you...Including this one:
190003F NOTAMN CYHQ NATIONAL
CYHQ CONFORMEMENT A L'ARTICLE 5.1 DE LA LOI SUR L'AERONAUTIQUE,
LE
MINISTRE DES TRANSPORTS ESTIME QU'IL EST NECESSAIRE POUR LA
PROTECTION DE LA SECURITE AERIENNE ET DU PUBLIC D'INTERDIRE
L'UTILISATION DES ACFT BOEING 737-8 MAX ET 737-9 MAX DANS
L'ESPACE AERIEN CANADIEN.
LES ACFT BOEING 737-8 MAX OU 737-9 MAX SONT INTERDITS DE VOL
DANS L'ESPACE AERIEN CANADIEN A L'EXC DES VOLS DE CONVOYAGE
OU LES VOLS A PARTIR, A DESTINATION OU A L'INTERIEUR DE L'ESPACE
AERIEN CANADIEN AU MOMENT DE L'ENTREE EN VIGUEUR DE CET AVIS.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by photofly » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:13 am

The NOTAM format is changing completely on October 19 - with a lot more metadata added - maybe things will be filterable then?
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by Cleared4TheOption » Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:57 pm

photofly wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:13 am
The NOTAM format is changing completely on October 19 - with a lot more metadata added - maybe things will be filterable then?
No new metadata yet.

Here's a quick summary of the stupidity of the "weather" tab of the flightplanning website (which includes the NOTAMs). You can get only the NOTAMs alone, but the intention of this website is a one-stop-shop for flight planning in Canada.

Putting in CYQT looking for the alphanumeric basics (NOTAMS, METAR, TAF and FDs) we get:

METAR > TAF > FD UPPER > FD LOWER > FD LOWER > FD UPPER > FD LOWER > FD UPPER > FD LOWER > FD UPPER > FD UPPER > FD LOWER > FD UPPER > FD UPPER> FD LOWER > CZWG NOTAM x1 > National NOTAM x1 (showing CZWG CZYZ instead of CYHQ) > CZWG NOTAM x1 > CYQT NOTAMs x6 > FD LOWER > FD UPPER > FD LOWER > CZWG NOTAM x1

So you get an FIR NOTAM, national NOTAM, then some airport NOTAMs, then another FIR NOTAM. They are not even sorted by the newest to oldest or vice versa, if you can even make sense of NOTAM number...

Even the time of the FDCN35 CWAO goes 19/20Z > 19/14Z > 20/02Z > 20/08Z

This is so unbelievably ridiculous, and this is only 1 airport. Thank god I can get a slightly less confusing picture from Foreflight.

PRO TIP: Use the "Route Radius" option and 1NM to avoid some of the duplicate FIR NOTAMs and graphical weather products when entering 2 or more airports.

Code: Select all

METAR CYQT 202000Z 26003KT 170V280 20SM FEW050 SCT260 15/05 A2985 RMK SC1CI2 SLP117 DENSITY ALT 900FT=

METAR CYQT 201900Z 20004KT 130V250 20SM FEW050 15/07 A2985 RMK CU2 SLP114 DENSITY ALT 900FT=

TAF CYQT 201938Z
2020/2108 20005KT P6SM FEW050
FM210200 VRB03KT P6SM SCT240
  PROB30 2102/2106 1/4SM FG VV002
FM210600 VRB03KT 1/4SM FG VV001
RMK NXT FCST BY 210200Z=

               FBCN35 KWNO 201553               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 201400Z
VALID 211400Z
FOR USE 0800-2000Z
     24000           30000           34000      
180  48 -29     190  66 -45     200 105 -52     
     39000           45000           53000      
210 110 -57     210  45 -56     220  36 -55     

               FBCN35 CWAO 192330               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 192000Z
VALID 202000Z
FOR USE 1400-0200Z
      3000            6000            9000      
Calm            290  11  +2     240   7  -3     
     12000           18000      
240  10 -10     270  23 -21     

               FBCN33 CWAO 201130               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 200800Z
VALID 202000Z
FOR USE 1700-0200Z
      3000            6000            9000      
Calm            230   6  +2     230   8  -3     
     12000           18000      
220  11  -9     270  21 -21     

               FBCN33 KWNO 201553               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 201400Z
VALID 210200Z
FOR USE 2300-0800Z
     24000           30000           34000      
220  31 -33     230  53 -50     240  69 -58     
     39000           45000           53000      
230  66 -57     230  44 -54     230  37 -54     

               FBCN33 CWAO 201730               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 201400Z
VALID 210200Z
FOR USE 2300-0800Z
      3000            6000            9000      
140  15         160  12  +2     180  14  -3     
     12000           18000      
210  19  -8     210  31 -20     

               FBCN35 KWNO 191553               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 191400Z
VALID 201400Z
FOR USE 0800-2000Z
     24000           30000           34000      
290  52 -37     280  57 -50     260  51 -49     
     39000           45000           53000      
230  51 -49     210  61 -49     220  36 -56     

               FBCN35 CWAO 191730               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 191400Z
VALID 201400Z
FOR USE 0800-2000Z
      3000            6000            9000      
280   9         280  13   0     280  16  -5     
     12000           18000      
280  15 -11     260  23 -26     

               FBCN35 KWNO 192153               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 192000Z
VALID 202000Z
FOR USE 1400-0200Z
     24000           30000           34000      
270  39 -34     260  70 -51     260  73 -57     
     39000           45000           53000      
240  53 -54     240  42 -51     230  28 -55     

               FBCN35 KWNO 200352               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 200200Z
VALID 210200Z
FOR USE 2000-0800Z
     24000           30000           34000      
210  40 -32     230  53 -50     230  70 -59     
     39000           45000           53000      
230  64 -57     230  43 -54     230  32 -54     

               FBCN33 CWAO 200530               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 200200Z
VALID 201400Z
FOR USE 1100-2000Z
      3000            6000            9000      
290   9         270  12   0     290  15  -4     
     12000           18000      
280  16 -11     270  25 -26     

               FBCN33 KWNO 200953               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 200800Z
VALID 202000Z
FOR USE 1700-0200Z
     24000           30000           34000      
270  36 -34     260  69 -51     260  71 -57     
     39000           45000           53000      
240  52 -54     240  48 -52     220  33 -55     

               FBCN31 KWNO 201553               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 201400Z
VALID 202000Z
FOR USE 1600-2300Z
     24000           30000           34000      
250  36 -34     260  61 -51     260  71 -58     
     39000           45000           53000      
240  53 -53     240  50 -51     220  32 -55     

               FBCN31 CWAO 201720               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 201400Z
VALID 202000Z
FOR USE 1600-2300Z
      3000            6000            9000      
Calm            Calm +1         240   8  -3     
     12000           18000      
230  12 -10     260  18 -21     

(M0254/19 NOTAMN
A) CZWG B) 1910201300 C) 1910210100
E) DUE TO REDUCED SYSTEM CAPACITY AND ANTICIPATED TFC DEMANDS, 
IFR ACFT DEP/ARR CYQK, CYXL, CYRL, CYHD, AND CYGQ MAY ANTICIPATE 
DLA UP TO 15 MIN AND IFR TRAINING FLT NOT AUTH AT THESE AD. 
CTC 204-983-8338 FOR INFO)

(G0049/19 NOTAMR G0027/19
A) CZWG CZYZ  B) 1910111524 C) PERM
E) PURSUANT TO SECTION 5.1 OF THE AERONAUTICS ACT, THE MINISTER
OF TRANSPORT IS OF THE OPINION IT IS NECESSARY FOR THE PROTECTION
OF AVIATION SAFETY AND THE PUBLIC TO PROHIBIT THE OPS OF
BOEING 737-8 MAX AND 737-9 MAX ACFT IN CANADIAN AIRSPACE.
B737-8 MAX OR B737-9 MAX ACFT ARE PROHIBITED FM OPR IN CANADIAN
AIRSPACE EXC FOR FERRY FLIGHTS OR ACFT IN FLIGHT FOR THE DURATION
OF THAT FLIGHT ENROUTE TO OR FM OR WITHIN CANADA AT THE TIME THIS
NOTICE TAKES EFFECT.
F) SFC G) UNL)

(M0070/19 NOTAMR M0063/19
A) CZWG B) 1910100901 C) 1912130700
E) CZEG ACC WILL COMMENCE USING CPDLC PILOT RTE REQUESTS ON OCT 2 
2019
CPDLC FLT OPR WITHIN CZEG ACC CTL AREA FL290 AND ABV MAY REQUEST
A RTE CHANGE USING A DM24 REQUEST (ROUTE CLEARANCE)
ATC WILL RESPOND VIA CPDLC USING A:
UM79 CLEARED TO (POSITION) VIA (ROUTE CLEARANCE),
UM80 CLEARED (ROUTE CLEARANCE), OR
UM83 AT (POSITION) CLEARED (ROUTE CLEARANCE))

(M0041/19 NOTAMN
A) CYQT B) 1910100901 C) 1910252359
E)  MCKAY TACAN CH72 U/S)

(J0173/19 NOTAMN
A) CYQT B) 1910101115 C) 1911030300
D) SEE TEXT
E) FIRE FIGHTING AND RESCUE DOWNGRADED TO CAT 5:
MON     1115-1245 1815-1915 2145-2245
TUE-WED 1100-1230 1300-1400 1630-1745 2145-2245 2315-0030
THU-FRI 1115-1245 1815-1915 2145-2245
SAT 1245-1400 1500-1630 1730-1845 2315-0300
SUN 1015-1245)

(J0150/19 NOTAMN
A) CYQT B) 1910100901 C) 1911151600EST
E) LIBUK ONE STAR: TRACK IRBOX TO MUTOX: NOT AUTH
NOTER ONE STAR: TRACK NOTER TO SILRA: NOT AUTH
TIGAG ONE STAR: TRACK ALVEB TO XIDOT: NOT AUTH)

(M0016/19 NOTAMN
A) CYQT B) 1910100901 C) 1911222359
E) MCKAY UAU TACAN CH72X UNMONITORED)

(J0051/19 NOTAMN
A) CYQT B) 1910100901 C) PERM
E) AMEND PUBLICATIONS: RNAV (RNP) Y RWY 07 APCH: PLAN VIEW: REPLACE 
WPT
SUSKE WITH DUNPO)

(J0050/19 NOTAMN
A) CYQT B) 1910100901 C) PERM
E) AMEND PUBLICATIONS: SERVICES: FUEL: DELETE JB
JASU TO READ: CE14
RWY DATA: RWY CERT: RWY 12 AND RWY 30 TO READ: RVR 1200 (1/4 SM))

               FBCN35 CWAO 200530               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 200200Z
VALID 210200Z
FOR USE 2000-0800Z
      3000            6000            9000      
150  14         170  10  +2     180  12  -3     
     12000           18000      
190  17  -8     190  31 -21     

               FBCN35 KWNO 200953               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 200800Z
VALID 210800Z
FOR USE 0200-1400Z
     24000           30000           34000      
200  44 -31     220  64 -49     220 115 -56     
     39000           45000           53000      
230  72 -57     230  52 -54     240  34 -54     

               FBCN35 CWAO 201130               
                      YQT                       
DATA BASED ON 200800Z
VALID 210800Z
FOR USE 0200-1400Z
      3000            6000            9000      
130  24         140  22  +1     150  21  -2     
     12000           18000      
160  25  -8     210  36 -19     

(G0003/19 NOTAMN
A) CZWG B) 1910100901 C) 1911271600EST
E) V13 BTN YQT AND BILII NOT SUITABLE FOR VOR NAV)
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:28 pm

Serious case of the web designers not having a clue what the end user (the pilots) need from the product. I recently talked to an FSS guy on the phone and he apologised for the new NOTAM website. They know it's horrid too.

Has anybody submitted an SMS report this with their company about this crap?
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by jakeandelwood » Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:50 pm

We all need to simply phone our FIC and ask for just notams for our route they'll get so backlogged with calls they'll be forced to change.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by Big Pistons Forever » Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:02 pm

Sadly it looks like the same folks who are responsible the Descend Via fiasco are at it again :oops:
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by CpnCrunch » Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:13 pm

If you display CZVR you get 278 NOTAMS, including runway surface condition at Smithers. It seems to be showing the NOTAMs for all the airports with the FIR as well as the FIR NOTAMs themselves.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by ahramin » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:48 am

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 8:02 pm
Sadly it looks like the same folks who are responsible the Descend Via fiasco are at it again :oops:
It is strikingly similar isn't it. "We're going to move forward like the rest of the world, but lets figure out a way to do it completely differently from the rest of the world. It might work."
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by Cleared4TheOption » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:45 pm

CpnCrunch wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 9:13 pm
If you display CZVR you get 278 NOTAMS, including runway surface condition at Smithers. It seems to be showing the NOTAMs for all the airports with the FIR as well as the FIR NOTAMs themselves.
Normally there would be no need to search for an FIR as you get it with each airport. That's interesting that you can do that though.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by CpnCrunch » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:24 pm

Cleared4TheOption wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:45 pm


Normally there would be no need to search for an FIR as you get it with each airport. That's interesting that you can do that though.
With the new website you only get FIR NOTAMs if they are within the search radius you enter, which isn't terribly useful as you'll still get all the NOTAMs for airports you're not interested in rather than the route you're flying.

Ah, I just figured it out. If you enter two or more airports and untick the "route radius" box (or set it to a low value) then it will show you all the FIR NOTAMs that apply to the route, and none of the extraneous crap for airports you're not interested in.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by HiFlyChick » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:17 pm

I made the mistake of asking for winds and got 3 pages just for the winds at Halifax!
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by Jonathan » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:58 pm

Just a few unofficial tips:
For airport notams, enter the code of the airport without any radius and it will show all notams associated with the airport. All notams have a radius of action depending on the type so for example a VOR that's 20 nm away will show.
If you are looking for notams for a flight, enter your route including airports, fixes, etc. and put a small route radius. All notams inside that radius will show. Problem for now is, all notams for all airports along that route radius will also show, not very pertinent for many types of operations. One of the goal of ICAO format is that eventually it will allow some sort of filters when searching based of altitude, flight rules, etc. In the mean time, just screen the list by looking at the left column and skip any notams that is irrelevant.
Take note that some isolated notams are not yet georeferenced so may appear randomly.
CFPS is (unfortunately) work in progress.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by 7ECA » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:20 pm

Damndest thing, here many of us were hoping for some sort of a positive change around the AWWS site - maybe updating the interface and products into the twenty-first century with larger images, etc - instead we've taken a step backwards and find ourselves using a "new" site that garbles up NOTAM searches even more than previously possible. Go figure... And we're supposed to check NOTAMs before each flight, lest the TC 'fuzz hears about any screw ups.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by photofly » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:47 pm

We’re from the government; we’re here to help.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:14 pm

Jonathan wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:58 pm
Just a few unofficial tips:
For airport notams, enter the code of the airport without any radius and it will show all notams associated with the airport. All notams have a radius of action depending on the type so for example a VOR that's 20 nm away will show.
If you are looking for notams for a flight, enter your route including airports, fixes, etc. and put a small route radius. All notams inside that radius will show. Problem for now is, all notams for all airports along that route radius will also show, not very pertinent for many types of operations. One of the goal of ICAO format is that eventually it will allow some sort of filters when searching based of altitude, flight rules, etc. In the mean time, just screen the list by looking at the left column and skip any notams that is irrelevant.
Take note that some isolated notams are not yet georeferenced so may appear randomly.
CFPS is (unfortunately) work in progress.
I suggest that the "work in progress" should have been completed before release to the public.

With such a disorganized mess, an actual import NOTAM will eventually be missed and cause an issue. While TC Enforcement might not understand, I suspect the TSB and the tribunal might get it. Yes the pilot didn't check that specific NOTAM, but the crap interface contributed to the error.
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by HiFlyChick » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:04 pm

I hope that everyone who took the time to post in this thread will voice their concerns directly to Nav Canada. I sent a message in on their web site, but I see where they posted notice of the change on Facebook, there are no comments, only shares and thumbs-up icons. If we want to see an improvement in any reasonable time frame, we need start making noise to Nav Canada, not just grouching to each other!
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Re: New NOTAM website - old site withdrawn

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:03 pm

I have mentioned it to NavCanada.

I also suggested submitting SMS reports with our various companies, but nobody seemed to agree.
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