Traing bond legal question

[4gui2]

Hi, trying to figure out if I have a leg to stand on. Here's the situation: worked for a small regional and left before the bond was up. When I left, the airplane was in maintenance, and still is, over 3 months later. At the time, there were solid rumors from mamagement that the plane was sold (reason why I started looking elsewhere). The company saved more money in saved salary than what the bond is worth because I left. Long story short, could I win in court?

Thanks!

[photofly]

No.

[digits_]

So it has been 3 months. Have they asked for their bond since you left? Have you been arguing about it for 3 months? What has happened in that timeframe?

[contactapproved]

I highly doubt that was written into what you signed so you’re probably out of luck. Hopefully for your sake the company is too busy and just doesn’t care to come after you for what you had remaining on the bond(hopefully it was pro rated). I’ve seen some just forget about it cause it’s not worth pursuing over a few thousand dollars. I’ve seen other companies who’ve fought to the death and spent way more on legal fees than what they got back.

[rookiepilot]

..hmmmmmmmm.

[4gui2]

So it has been 3 months. Have they asked for their bond since you left? Have you been arguing about it for 3 months? What has happened in that timeframe?

Didnt hear from them since, but was informed a letter was sent out today and cant read it for another week.

That company is notorious about going after pilots for bonds. It makes more money out of pilots than revenue flights.

[boeingboy]

Generally speaking - I would say no you could not win. Just because the plane is out of service does not mean your off the hook, and rumors of a sale are just that....rumors.

However - if the contract is 1 1/2 pages long - you may get out of it as it could be too vague. It really all depends on how everything is worded. If you really want to know what your chances are - go talk to an employment lawyer. Sometimes you can get a free consultation.

[jakeandelwood]

They haven't provided you with work in 3 months?!? If I got that right and unless they were still paying you which I'm guessing they weren't I'm quite sure that would be your ticket in court to get out of the bond. If they were providing you with steady work then it would be a different story but you can't just wait around for months at a time with no pay. They only have the one plane?

[L39Guy]

Is the employer upholding their end of the bond by providing you employment? Are you being denied wages because the aircraft is not flying, I.e. you are receiving a base wage but not premiums from flying as the aircraft has been in maintenance?

I am not a lawyer but this could be a beach of contract including an implied contract.

Raymond Hall frequents this site. How about a little pro bono for this aviator?

[Conquest Driver]

I suspect the big question here is "Did you resign? If you did you're likely out of luck.

If they issued you with a lawful notice of termination due to a shortage of work, I'd think you'd be OK. There are a few bonds out there that try to keep you on the hook during a temporary layoff but those are pretty rare.

If neither of the above apply, I think you're still an employee and they're still liable for salary.

This is clearly a case for an individual consultation with a Lawyer. There are far too many variables here to provide a reliable answer.

[lownslow]

You signed it so you’re on the hook. There are a couple weasely, shitty methods that can work to shuffle out of any bond but I’m not getting into those because I think they’re weasely and shitty. Instead, WTF “regional airline” has one airplane??

[4gui2]

Wage was still being paid as I resigned 2 weeks after the plane was grounded. From what I understand in training bonds its to prevent financial loss to a company after training and leaving. However, it was beneficial to them that I left as the saved wages exceeded the value of the bond and training costs, therefore not causing any loss to the company. That's why i'm asking the question. The basic purpose of the bond.

Thanks for the responses and keeping it civilised!

Ps: they have a few airplanes, but only 1 of that type that I had a ppc.

[altiplano]

Was your pay reduced at all?

Were they asking you to do things that weren't in the initial scope of your position? ie. flying airplanes.

Come in for a project in the office? Sweep the hangar?

Or did they just send you home to wait indefinitely at full pay?

Any of these, including sitting at home with full pay, could be considered a constructive dismissal. The employer has unilaterally changed your role and work conditions. You signed on to this airline to fly airplanes and advance your career, not do office work, not to sweep the hangar, not to sit around, not to take a pay reduction.

Also, whether sold or sitting, the company isn't operating the type, How can they demonstrate any loss by you not being there to fly something they don't fly. Typically a training contract would have a clause to this extent. ie. released in the event of creased operations.

How long was on the contract?

I absolutely think you have a defense.

[dialdriver]

Another defense could be "frustrated agreement", since you agreed to a bond to fly the aircraft and they aren't holding that end of the deal up.

[valleyboy]

You obviously left because you got a "better" job. You signed the bond in the first place and knew the consequences. The money is a small issue compared to the damage the employer can do to your career. I know first hand of phone calls going out to contacts to blacklist bond dodgers. If you made no attempt to negotiate an exit that means to me that no matter what the situation of the aircraft you would have bailed at first greener field.
I personally don't agree with or like bonds since they are not like a proper contract and are very one sided but if you sign you must pay unless you can prove the carrier is operating outside the law, which is difficult to do especially if you have sat in a seat while it's happening and have let it happen. Ignoring a bond just to jump to another job is just wrong.

[Capt. Underpants]

I personally don't agree with or like bonds since they are not like a proper contract and are very one sided but if you sign you must pay unless you can prove the carrier is operating outside the law, which is difficult to do especially if you have sat in a seat while it's happening and have let it happen. Ignoring a bond just to jump to another job is just wrong.

And I know of an operator who was successfully sued for making such phone calls. Their reputation was notorious and they made the mistake of trying to rat the guy out to other operators who saw them as nothing more than a blight on the industry.

[digits_]

The money is a small issue compared to the damage the employer can do to your career.

If he already has a new job, what's the harm? Hopefully in this job he'll get good references if he ever moves on from there.

If it turns into a lawsuit, and for whatever -unlikely- reason, the judge decides in OP's favor, then something was wrong with the bond, and he did the right thing. Merely defending yourself in a lawsuit and following whatever decision is made, should not be looked upon unfavourably, it is your right. In a civilised world, people have disagreements. I've also never heard of a company waiting over 3 months to go after a pilot for the bond.

Let's be honest here, if a job would really be as advertised, with no illegal shit or undue pressure, 90% of pilots would not skip out on a bond. People usually leave because the job is not what they were told.

[jakeandelwood]

If they were paying you full wages while you were on your couch you really don't have a leg to stand on, the rest of the working world outside aviation would consider that a holiday.

[valleyboy]

And I know of an operator who was successfully sued for making such phone calls

I wasn't referring to blatant and obvious stupidity of calling a company directly but things like references and the "unofficial" phone call to a friend of authority to give them a heads up is what I witnessed. I don't even know if it had an impact but it likely complicated things for the candidate. Of course now it seems companies are forced to take anyone with a pulse. That could be changing a little since I don't see as many job ads for pilots. It seems the insanity has gone to the maintenance side.

[Old fella]

Hi, trying to figure out if I have a leg to stand on. Here's the situation: worked for a small regional and left before the bond was up. When I left, the airplane was in maintenance, and still is, over 3 months later. At the time, there were solid rumors from mamagement that the plane was sold (reason why I started looking elsewhere). The company saved more money in saved salary than what the bond is worth because I left. Long story short, could I win in court?

Thanks!

Once you mention the word court, appropriate legal advice from a qualified lawyer in Employment/Human Resources or similar is the safe and only option. Best to dispense with the legal opinions from the Firm Avcanada,Google ,Facebook and Associates .