Good FTU for instructing-Montreal/GTA

[av8tour]

Hi everyone,

Please note: I have searched the forum for recent opinions on this topic but I did not find a relevant thread.

I am currently considering becoming a flight instructor and I am once again seeking your guidance and advice. The plan is for me and my family (we have one new baby) to move to Montreal or somewhere in the GTA where I could instruct for a while. The goal is to find a good FTU that pays well. By that I mean a pay that allows me to pay for my family's basic needs without having to sell a kidney on craigslist.

I prefer a school in Montreal since we love the city and since it is much more affordable than most big cities. Here are my concerns:

1- I do not speak French (very basic knowledge, not sufficient for communication)
2- I do not know what are the paying rates/average (maybe FTUs in Ontario pay more to compensate for higher living expenses?)
3- I am looking for a school where instructors are treated well and that has a healthy and friendly atmosphere.

My goal is to become an instructor and to give it my all and enjoy it. I wouldn't mind if it turns into a career rather than just a job.

If you guys have any information or advice, please do not hesitate to let me know. You can pm me if you want to avoid an argument based on your opinion of a certain place!

Thank you all for reading and contributing.

[Beefitarian]

I avoid Toronto, I would not be surprised if the schools around there pay less because so many people want to live there.

Have you considered phoning the FTUs you are interested in, to talk with the chief pilot or even other staff?

[av8tour]

I tried calling 3 schools in Montreal. One answered me and told me that they fly around 400 hours a year. I think they have a small operation. They kinda lost interest when I said I might do my instructor’s rating elsewhere due to funding restraints.
I called Cargair but I was told that the employee who can help me is on vacation. I called Air Richelieu but no one answers me once they reroute the call.

From my research it seems like Cargair has a bigger operation with a charter division. I don’t know how much they pay their instructors and I do not know if they hire without French. It seems most their clientele is Chinese students. I don’t see why French would be a requirement.

[Cavalier44]

If you don't speak French fluently, finding an instructor position in Montreal could be tough. With that being said, if I were you I would look into Cornwall Aviation. They have a good reputation and although I've never worked there, I've only heard good things from those who have. It seems to be a fairly busy operation so you'll build time quickly there. It's also less than an hour's drive from Montreal so it's definitely feasible to live within the city limits and drive to and from Cornwall for work.

[Braun]

Dorval aviation seems to be more anglophone than the other schools in the greater Montreal area. Flying out of YUL has it's plus and minuses. Cornwall could be a good bet. Most schools in CYHU probably would require some level of French but your best bet would be to call/visit and find out.

I flew out of Air Richelieu, personally, i'd avoid it. It really is super busy and I felt it was a very impersonal training environment. As a student I didn't really like it, maybe as an instructor it is better.

[Needcash]

The reality is you cannot support a family on class 4 instructor pay, even in Montreal where rent is not yet out of control. Expect to make 30k a year ($24-$30 an hour) as a class 4 instructor working out of an FTU.

Sault college, on the other hand, does pay OK (52-55k salary to start) and you can get a professor position or technologist position which then becomes 70k plus. The downside is that you will probably only fly 300-400hrs a year. But the pay is certainly sustainable. Seneca or confederation may pay similar.

Working at Cornwall you will work and fly a lot but not much money. It is fatiguing. At least from what the instructors have described to me.

[Zlip]

To give you more cue:

Cargair: as mentionned, probably your best chance. But when you are class 4 FI you have to "rent" the plane (can't remembrer the rate, around 15 to 20$). This rent desapear when you become class 3. Average rate is around 20 for a class 4 to 30/h for a class 3. The typical progression is: FI, Multi/IFR FI, then Max Aviation (703 operation with King Air 100). Or Nolinor (yeah, Nolinor belongs to Prudhomme's family too).

Air Rich: no interest. Full of french

CPAQ Aero: I instructed here. Pretty good place to work ! But there is a lack of english people sadly...

At Beloeil you have ALM par avion. I don't know their need but you can still try it ! Good reputation and Beloeil is a challenging airfield (more than YHU).

Dorval aviation: well, with only one C-172, you won't fly alot... Maybe it changes in the past few month ?

Lachute aviation; located at Lachute. Good reputation too ! I think it's a kind a Cargair operation but the kind of ambiance you looking for. If I were you, I would go there.

Average rate are 20 to 30$/h for an FI job. Don't forget you'll be paid on the flight time only (and for the brief/debrief). It means you'll work 14h paid 8, maybe 9 a day...

Farther from Montreal but closer from Quebec: Grondair. Probably the only place around Montreal where you can live without doing a part time elsewhere: 300$/week guaranteed and around 30$/h for a class 4. But it's very far from any city...

Good luck with that!

[av8tour]

Dorval aviation seems to be more anglophone than the other schools in the greater Montreal area. Flying out of YUL has it's plus and minuses. Cornwall could be a good bet. Most schools in CYHU probably would require some level of French but your best bet would be to call/visit and find out.

I flew out of Air Richelieu, personally, i'd avoid it. It really is super busy and I felt it was a very impersonal training environment. As a student I didn't really like it, maybe as an instructor it is better.

I would definitely visit the schools but currently I am not living In Quebec. I am planning a visit within a month and will go knocking on their doors to see things on the ground.

Heard relatively good things on Cornwall. Distance might be the issue, but will keep it in mind if I couldn’t find a better option closer to Montreal.

I am getting consistent reviews about Air Richelieu inline with what you have mentioned.

Thank you for your comment, it will definitely help.

[av8tour]

To give you more cue:

Cargair: as mentionned, probably your best chance. But when you are class 4 FI you have to "rent" the plane (can't remembrer the rate, around 15 to 20$). This rent desapear when you become class 3. Average rate is around 20 for a class 4 to 30/h for a class 3. The typical progression is: FI, Multi/IFR FI, then Max Aviation (703 operation with King Air 100). Or Nolinor (yeah, Nolinor belongs to Prudhomme's family too).

Air Rich: no interest. Full of french

CPAQ Aero: I instructed here. Pretty good place to work ! But there is a lack of english people sadly...

At Beloeil you have ALM par avion. I don't know their need but you can still try it ! Good reputation and Beloeil is a challenging airfield (more than YHU).

Dorval aviation: well, with only one C-172, you won't fly alot... Maybe it changes in the past few month ?

Lachute aviation; located at Lachute. Good reputation too ! I think it's a kind a Cargair operation but the kind of ambiance you looking for. If I were you, I would go there.

Average rate are 20 to 30$/h for an FI job. Don't forget you'll be paid on the flight time only (and for the brief/debrief). It means you'll work 14h paid 8, maybe 9 a day...

Farther from Montreal but closer from Quebec: Grondair. Probably the only place around Montreal where you can live without doing a part time elsewhere: 300$/week guaranteed and around 30$/h for a class 4. But it's very far from any city...

Good luck with that!

There is so much great info in your reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain this to me.

I will contact Cargair and check out if they would hire people who do not speak french. Hopefully I could start a career with those guys and be able to gain some good experience. Maybe fly their charter at some point down the road. If not, I will look into the other options as you have pointed out.

Thank you once again. Cheers!

[Braun]

Dorval aviation has 3 172’s now.

[av8tour]

Dorval aviation has 3 172’s now.

How many instructors do they have? Are they busy?

[Braun]

They have at least 4 instructors, probably more and the planes always seemed pretty booked!

[pilotpark]

Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre is a great school, great fleet, great maintenance and good people. Ask for Ackbar Bashiri for your instructor rating or Pete Lise. We don't have an instructor shortage as the University/College students become instructors and keep us going, but they do take external applicants. Its not the GTA, but an hour half away from Toronto, and Waterloos a great booming city with decent priced rent.

[av8tour]

Waterloo Wellington Flight Centre is a great school, great fleet, great maintenance and good people. Ask for Ackbar Bashiri for your instructor rating or Pete Lise. We don't have an instructor shortage as the University/College students become instructors and keep us going, but they do take external applicants. Its not the GTA, but an hour half away from Toronto, and Waterloos a great booming city with decent priced rent.

I have heard good things about Waterloo flight centre. I will give them a call and see if they will be inclined to hire me if I do my instructor's rating. Thanks for your reply and your advice Pilotpark

[Cap'n P8]

Not sure where you are planning to move from, if you already own a house or are planning to buy...but if you were considering Cornwall Aviation, why not consider renting or buying in Cornwall area? It is quite inexpensive, has all the amenities one would need, is close to Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto and upstate New York. Lots of people working out of YUL live in the area (if that’s where your career ends up taking you. Cornwall airport is about ten minutes east of town, so very easy drive to work.