From Float flying to Airlines?

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Cessnaguy66
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From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by Cessnaguy66 »

Hey everyone,

I am in the earlier stages of my career and am thinking of starting a float flying job on something like a C180 or C185. I am wondering though if i do start flying floats would it be harder for me to get a FO position on a multi turbine down the road on something like a king air? Compared to someone who built their time on wheels? Airlines is eventually the goal.
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PilotDAR
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by PilotDAR »

Any substantial amount of float flying will be very appreciated in your piloting skills, as you will have refined your hands and feet skills very well, and more importantly will have developed very good decision making skills. You will also learn dock, and "there's no job too small" work ethics, which will be appreciated.

There are fewer opportunities to build that kind of time on wheels, other than instructing, which will not get you anywhere near the skills and experience.

And, it's simply fun!

Go float flying.
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ayseven
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by ayseven »

Agree with above. There is no such thing as a waste of time when building hours, especially PIC.
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DHC2-8
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by DHC2-8 »

If you are interested in floats go do it. It is the most fun flying there is in my opinion and provides invaluable experiences in and out of the airplane. Operators will appreciate that you have flown in a commercial setting and have flown in conditions that are not as structured as instructing for instance. Transitioning to IFR later is a steep curve but doable. Benefits of floats is typically you are doing many takeoffs and landings in an hour of flight time which hones your hands and feet. Depending on hiring and experience its possible to go from floats to 705 these days as well. Good luck and enjoy the ride.
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Caterpillar
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by Caterpillar »

Do both! Join a company that has both operations (ie Tindi). They will give you a little bit of everything to build your resume!
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Since I’m flying the King Air, does that qualify me to fly the Queen of the skies?
iflyforpie
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by iflyforpie »

Reminds me of a story I heard, probably untrue.

Somewhat recently, an experienced pilot from a reputable float operator went for an interview at Encore. The interview wasn’t going well.. and it seemed like this panel was stacked against this pilot.

They asked him if he really thought he could handle the Q400 having only flown tiny and slow float planes.

He said: “What’s so hard about it? Even a baggage handler can fly one!”

:lol:
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Firetractor
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by Firetractor »

The transition is definitely doable as I have seen several of my peers and myself do that very thing. I come from a float and instructing back ground and found my float experience to be more applicable and desirable to my potential employers after moving on.

I found my time as a float pilot helped not just in the handling of the aircraft but also in interacting with the customers while on the ground. The mixture of American tourists and First Nations People means you experience an interesting cross section of society. That has helped almost as much as the hands on flying in my post floats jobs.

I actually know of an individual who went direct q400 post float flying but I wouldn't expect that to occur very often. In all honesty if your goal is to get to the airlines this probably won't be the fastest path. In my opinion however the extra year or two will definitely be worth the wait.
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losercruiser
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by losercruiser »

Do what you want to do. I loved my time flying floats and wouldn't trade it, BUT if you are say 28-30+ and your goal is the airlines if you can find a MIFR job now that would be more ideal for career progression. But you'll miss out on some good fun flying. Flying a Navajo around or PC12 will still give you some good hands and feet.
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DonutHole
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by DonutHole »

Cessnaguy66 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:32 pm Hey everyone,

I am in the earlier stages of my career and am thinking of starting a float flying job on something like a C180 or C185. I am wondering though if i do start flying floats would it be harder for me to get a FO position on a multi turbine down the road on something like a king air? Compared to someone who built their time on wheels? Airlines is eventually the goal.
with the complete and utter insurance clusterfuck for float operators it would be easier for you to move from airlines on to floats.
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TeePeeCreeper
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by TeePeeCreeper »

DonutHole wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:10 pm
Cessnaguy66 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:32 pm Hey everyone,

I am in the earlier stages of my career and am thinking of starting a float flying job on something like a C180 or C185. I am wondering though if i do start flying floats would it be harder for me to get a FO position on a multi turbine down the road on something like a king air? Compared to someone who built their time on wheels? Airlines is eventually the goal.
with the complete and utter insurance clusterfuck for float operators it would be easier for you to move from airlines on to floats.
And that’s sad. (A world where T.C is superseded by an underwriter.)

Send my best wishes to the usual suspects and best wishes to your kin for 2020!

All the best,
TPC
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TailwheelPilot
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by TailwheelPilot »

DonutHole wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:10 pm with the complete and utter insurance clusterfuck for float operators it would be easier for you to move from airlines on to floats.
How bad has insurance for float operators gotten? I have seen many references to higher rates at renewal, but nothing about insurance wanting more experience.
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ant_321
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by ant_321 »

Firetractor wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:20 pm

I actually know of an individual who went direct q400 post float flying but I wouldn't expect that to occur very often. In all honesty if your goal is to get to the airlines this probably won't be the fastest path. In my opinion however the extra year or two will definitely be worth the wait.
I know someone who went from a beaver to a 737NG. I’m sure it was tough but doable.
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DonutHole
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by DonutHole »

TailwheelPilot wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:24 am
DonutHole wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:10 pm with the complete and utter insurance clusterfuck for float operators it would be easier for you to move from airlines on to floats.
How bad has insurance for float operators gotten? I have seen many references to higher rates at renewal, but nothing about insurance wanting more experience.
every operator has a different policy, but I would be surprised to hear of bare cpls with a float rating flying anything for the near future.

2 accidents this year are expected to pay out more liability than revenue that the entire sector will generate for the next three years.

underwriters are fleeing the segment as policy terms lapse and the operators are at a huge disadvantage with such limited supply and such high demand.

in the next year I expect to see minimum hour requirements go from 250 and a rating to 500 on floats pic, 250 on type and that experience level will get you rate that only doubled.

every single float operator is essentially one accident away from being uninsurable. it's a bad scene
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Last edited by DonutHole on Wed Jan 01, 2020 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DonutHole
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by DonutHole »

TeePeeCreeper wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:06 am
DonutHole wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:10 pm
Cessnaguy66 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:32 pm Hey everyone,

I am in the earlier stages of my career and am thinking of starting a float flying job on something like a C180 or C185. I am wondering though if i do start flying floats would it be harder for me to get a FO position on a multi turbine down the road on something like a king air? Compared to someone who built their time on wheels? Airlines is eventually the goal.
with the complete and utter insurance clusterfuck for float operators it would be easier for you to move from airlines on to floats.
And that’s sad. (A world where T.C is superseded by an underwriter.)

Send my best wishes to the usual suspects and best wishes to your kin for 2020!

All the best,
TPC
hey man happy new year.

I dont need to tell you how difficult it was, now ita nearly impossible.

I'll pass along your good tidings. have an awesome 2020 man!
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porcsord
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by porcsord »

Cessnaguy66 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:32 pm am thinking of starting a float flying job on something like a C180 or C185
Do you already have a job flying a float plane, or are you just thinking about applying for a float job? There is an order of magnitude of difference (that I've found), between someone who transitions to IFR having flown floats vs an instructor for example. The floats pilots I've trained are all relatively quick upgrades because they've had to make real world decisions, can fly the airplane and have usually flown in virtually IMC conditions. IFR and Airplanes types can be taught. Quickly. Decision making can't.

All this to say, if you have the opportunity to spend a few seasons in the Bush, flying small or large float planes, when you get that airline job, you won't be talking about airline flying in the cockpit, you will be talking about the good old days, when you used to get up, get your airplane ready, talk to the clients, and land in remote lakes and rivers.

PC
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Cessnaguy66
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by Cessnaguy66 »

Thanks for the responses guys I appreciate it! It sounds like it will be a win win. Floats it is!
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seven-oh-nooo
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Re: From Float flying to Airlines?

Post by seven-oh-nooo »

Cessnaguy66 wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:32 pm If I do start flying floats would it be harder for me to get a FO position on a multi turbine down the road
Generally no, but some companies still have CPs that are biased against some backgrounds. I’ve also known some to count instructing time as zero (“Why would I want to hire a passenger?”), and some that distrusted pilots with no PIC time. They’re more the exception than the rule and getting to be more so every day but they’re out there. I would think the biased CPs probably all got memorably burned in the past and they’re reluctant to make that mistake again. That’s an easy trap to fall into when you’re in charge.

In my experience the float pilots I hired to fly light twins had excellent hands and feet as well as the ability to operate fairly autonomously; ie. good upgrade candidates. Their IFR knowledge was typically pretty rusty to begin with but it’s a skill and if you work at it you improve, which they did.

A season or two on floats looks like a great adventure. If you think so too then go for it.
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