Time is of the essence

[digits_]

A reputable collection agency is going to want some evidence of a real debt before they waste time on you. Otherwise they’re not going to get any commission.

This might interest you:
https://www.mcmillan.ca/Law-Note---Limi ... -Reporting

While consumer protection legislation varies from province to province, much of its application deals with governing the conduct of credit reporting agencies, rather than governing parties who report debts to credit reporting agencies. These consumer protection statutes do, however, provide that a person may be subject to fines or imprisonment if they knowingly supply false or misleading information to a credit reporting agency. As these provisions are designed to protect consumers from intentionally wrongful acts, they will have limited impact, if any, on parties who report debts in good faith.

Thank you, that was actually very interesting! A bit disturbing and a bit freaky, but at least I learned something new...

[digits_]

Debt collectors don't have the power to go after your credit rating, just harass you and threaten you.

Do you use "debt collector" as a synonym for "collection agency", or is there a difference between the two?
Photofly's link seems to indicate collection agencies can in fact report unpaid debts to credit reporting agencies.

[YYZSaabGuy]

Debt collectors don't have the power to go after your credit rating, just harass you and threaten you.

That depends on what you mean by "going after your credit rating". Licensed collection agencies do in fact report assigned accounts to the various credit bureaus: it's one more way of pressuring debtors to deal with their obligations.

[bobcaygeon]

Careful what you ask for. I know where I work the bond doesn’t cover the total cost anymore as it hasn’t been updated in a long time. They’d gladly take actual costs incurred.

A credible company have a lawyer review it. Every business and airlines has a legal contact. It’s a part of life. Whether they chose to run it by them is another thing. It’s pretty cheap to do it once and then “copy it” for all bonds/training agreements.

Where I work there is the option to ship the collections to legal for a 30% cut. They rarely have to do that.

You leave your instructing job to come to get some multi-leave in 6 months to get some multi ifr tirbine FO times and split after 6 months to Jazz/Porter/Encore/Sky Regional and I have zero sympathy for you. You had no intention of doing nothing but using my employer to fill a ticky box on the application. You’ve often even stated that $$$ wouldn’t make a difference

[AuxBatOn]

Debt collectors don't have the power to go after your credit rating, just harass you and threaten you.

Nope, once your debt goes to a collection agency, your credit score will go down.

“ What happens to your credit score
Once your creditor transfers your debt to a collection agency, your credit score will go down.”

https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-cons ... gency.html

[altiplano]

Debt collectors don't have the power to go after your credit rating, just harass you and threaten you.

Nope, once your debt goes to a collection agency, your credit score will go down.

“ What happens to your credit score
Once your creditor transfers your debt to a collection agency, your credit score will go down.”

https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-cons ... gency.html

I should have been more specific...

That page is talking about financial creditors and collections, and it's the creditor that will report your non-payment.

"to collect money that you owe on a credit card, line of credit, or loan."

[AuxBatOn]

Debt collectors don't have the power to go after your credit rating, just harass you and threaten you.

Nope, once your debt goes to a collection agency, your credit score will go down.

“ What happens to your credit score
Once your creditor transfers your debt to a collection agency, your credit score will go down.”

https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-cons ... gency.html

I should have been more specific...

That page is talking about financial creditors and collections, and it's the creditor that will report your non-payment.

"to collect money that you owe on a credit card, line of credit, or loan."

A bond represents a loan. The creditor being the company and the debtor the employee. I would be surprised if a company was not allowed to transfer the bond to a collection agency but I may be mistaken.

[digits_]

A bond could be a loan in some circumstances, but in most cases it is merely a compensation for (perceived?) financial damage to the company or a penalty for breaking a contract.

[altiplano]

If it's all on the up and up then the creditor can take that to the credit rating agency.

A dubious contract held by a collection agency won't be what goes to Equifax, etc.

[AuxBatOn]

A bond could be a loan in some circumstances, but in most cases it is merely a compensation for (perceived?) financial damage to the company or a penalty for breaking a contract.

Isn’t it the definition of a bond??

“The bond is a debt security, under which the issuer owes the holders a debt and (depending on the terms of the bond) is obliged to pay them interest (the coupon) or to repay the principal at a later date, termed the maturity date.“

How is a training bond a “dubious contract”? If I am not mistaken, when bonds were taken to court, weren’t the ruling in favor of the employer?

[digits_]

A bond could be a loan in some circumstances, but in most cases it is merely a compensation for (perceived?) financial damage to the company or a penalty for breaking a contract.

Isn’t it the definition of a bond??

“The bond is a debt security, under which the issuer owes the holders a debt and (depending on the terms of the bond) is obliged to pay them interest (the coupon) or to repay the principal at a later date, termed the maturity date.“

Maybe, but when pilots are talking about bonds, they use it for different things:

1) You take out a bank loan for initial training and the company pays off the bank loan as long as you work there. If you leave early, you are on the hook with the bank. If you try to dodge those payments, you'll be in serious trouble and your credit score will most likely take a big nosedive.

2) The company makes you sign a contract as a condition of employment. That contract can say different things. Some say you have to repay the initial training costs, others word it as "compensation to make sure the company gets a return on investment" or other different wordings. They mention a value and the monthly decrease of value left. Are these loans? Maybe, maybe not. I think you could argue it either way

3) Similar as above, but the "fine" if you leave is weird. For example, you owe the full amount if you leave within 2 years, but after 2 years you owe nothing. Doesn't sound like a loan. Or if you leave in the first year, you owe 75%, if you leave in year 2 you owe 25%. Not something you would find at a typical bank either.

How is a training bond a “dubious contract”? If I am not mistaken, when bonds were taken to court, weren’t the ruling in favor of the employer?

It could go either way.
I find it a bit dubious myself. The obligations of the pilot are usually described in detail (pay what and when), but the information on the company's side is usually pretty vague. Working conditions rarely are as advertised. I haven't seen a single company where the working conditions are described in the bond. That makes it "dubious".

If working conditions are as advertised, I'd wager that 90% of the pilots would not break a bond, mainly because the majority would turn down the job.

[altiplano]

"Bond" is a pretty general term for a contract of sorts. Lots of poorly written, dubious contracts our there, not all contracts are enforceable.

[Ki-ll]

"Bond" is a pretty general term for a contract of sorts. Lots of poorly written, dubious contracts our there, not all contracts are enforceable.

Yeah, ok.
http://canlii.ca/t/7c70

[altiplano]

"Bond" is a pretty general term for a contract of sorts. Lots of poorly written, dubious contracts our there, not all contracts are enforceable.

Yeah, ok.
http://canlii.ca/t/7c70

Some contracts are valid, some are not.

All I'm saying don't rush to pay because they are pressuring you - "Time is of the essence"... that's the thread right?

Review your options.

[Ki-ll]

"Bond" is a pretty general term for a contract of sorts. Lots of poorly written, dubious contracts our there, not all contracts are enforceable.

Yeah, ok.
http://canlii.ca/t/7c70

Some contracts are valid, some are not.

All I'm saying don't rush to pay because they are pressuring you - "Time is of the essence"... that's the thread right?

Review your options.

Yes. Find a good employment lawyer and talk to them. It costs money but professional advice is worth it.

[185pilot]

I was wondering if you signed a contract with a training bond that is due in full if you leave within 0 - 24 months, should you re-pay only half the amount to the employer after 1 year? It should be pro-rated? Is it fair?

[Ki-ll]

I was wondering if you signed a contract with a training bond that is due in full if you leave within 0 - 24 months, should you re-pay only half the amount to the employer after 1 year? It should be pro-rated? Is it fair?

It looks like that might be the case.
Read this decision:
http://canlii.ca/t/7c70
There are also several other cases of training bonds to read about on that same website.
Still, it would be wise to talk to a lawyer.

[George Taylor]

Whether you agree or don't agree with bonds is a decision you have to make before you sign one. Bonds in Canada are quite enforceable and one only has to do a search in case law to validate this. The common theme is, did the employee receive value for training, and is that training beneficial to the employee in their new position.

[altiplano]

I agree, if you sign one got should expect to honour it. They can be enforceable. But they aren't always.

Nobody should ride it out at a piece of shit operator, I've been there and glad to get through it alive. I'd rather chance defending the law suit than stay.

[Beefitarian]

That's why I give companies a pay as you go mobile number and sign all bonds. Elmer Fudd ~ millionaire