Corona Virus

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Trematode
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Trematode »

doiwannabeapilot wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:03 pm You are right. Stopping travel from China ONLY would not have stopped it 100% and we will unfortunately never know how much it may have helped.

A worldwide travel ban would have been 100x better.

However, common sense would dictate the first country you should ban travel from would be where patient zero is from.
I wasn't trying to IMPLY. I am saying that it WAS due to political or economic pressure. To think otherwise is probably naive.
It may not have even been political correctness, (although the government prides itself on that), it could have been purely an economic decision.
Even if other Canadian political parties were in power, it is quite possible that they would not have acted much differently.

I think in the future....taking that potential economic hit from upsetting any 1 particular country would be preferred.

I am closer to agreeing with you here.

Taking appropriate measures and shutting down air travel and the economy early would have taken substantial leadership, coupled with a large deference to science that I just don't think exists in modern politics. I don't know if it ever has. It would have been a monumental, unprecedented decision.

I will say -- at the risk of being divisive -- that I absolutely do think that we would have been even more delayed in our response if a conservative party had been in charge. They have historically and consistently taken anti-science, and anti-intellectual stances in their policy making and sacrificed science at the alter of ideology shockingly frequently in the last 20 years. One need only look south of the border to see the kind of denial and political ploying that worked directly against the science and the experts, and continues to do so, in the face of this crisis.
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BTD
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by BTD »

doiwannabeapilot wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:06 pm
Yes, listen to the people who say do X this week; but 2 weeks later say don't do X.
THAT is where the credibility issue comes from.
It would be foolish not to change an opinion or recommendation based on new evidence. It would also be foolish to expect everything to be 100% accurate in the initial stages. As the science progresses so will the recommendations. To make grand sweeping changes before the data supports it would be silly as every and any proposal would then have to be put on equal footing. The best course of action is to do nothing until the science suggests you should. To be noted that the science may come from a history of dealing with similar circumstances. In this case SARS, MERS, Spanish Flu, etc....

It may be the case that we should be going about this differently, but those arguments should be had using evidence and argued by those who understand it in-depth and can articulate their arguments. Not by those of us who have spent a few hours over the last weeks looking at worldometer and based on that, saying what we “think” should be done.
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

doiwannabeapilot wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:06 pm
Rockie wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:53 pm
doiwannabeapilot wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 1:33 pm https://www.macleans.ca/society/science ... ple-steps/

Yes, he is edumacated.

Pelmet, you might like this article.
Without step one you don’t get to step two. Pelmet won’t like this article.
We're almost in step 1 !
Like he proffers, it just has to be a hardcore lockdown; not this half-heartedness.

I think most reasonable people would agree; lets work out the kinks and go all in for 2-3 weeks. then step 2 !
As far as I'm concerned, the article is similar to what I have been saying. There may be some differences in step 1 but overall in getting the young people out for herd immunity is what I have been saying. As far as I'm concerned the time to get the young people out is now or very soon. Perhaps the age should be reduced to 44 with none of them being people with underlying issues.

Why 44 you ask(which can start the economy now)? Because of one article here....

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/health/c ... index.html

"And of the 121 patients known to have been admitted to an ICU, 36% were adults ages 45 to 64, while 12% were ages 20 to 44. There were no ICU admissions reported for those under age 19, the report says.

The report did not say whether the patients had underlying risk factors such as a chronic illness or compromised immune systems, so it's unclear whether the younger adults hospitalized were more vulnerable to serious infection than others."


No doubt, many of those 12% were people with underlying issues, people who should remain quarantined.

Bottom line, the article is similar to what I have been saying and I am happy to admit that there can be some modifications to my original plan to......"Save the World" :supz:

And all those earlier posters were insulting me for that.
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complexintentions
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by complexintentions »

Rockie wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:58 pm
pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:06 am
4. It is not nearly as high a death rate as you are saying...."On Mar. 3, the World Health Organization said the mortality rate for the virus had increased to 3.4 per cent." Guess what WHO.....there are all kinds of people without symptoms or few symptoms who never got tested. The mortality rate is much lower than estimates because so many people have few symptoms.

Shred away experts.

Time to get the young people infected while getting the economy going while older people are quarantined.
Actually as of April 6th the number of worldwide confirmed cases reported to the WHO is 1,210,244 with the number of related deaths standing at 67,583. Now there are a several caveats to go along with those numbers but to save you the trouble of doing the math yourseelf that equals a 5.58% mortality rate.

But what are stats and medical expertise against the awe inspiring mental powers of Professor Pelmet? We should all bow...
Such bickering is pointless and silly. There are so many different factors in assessing death rates (ie "case fatality rate" vs "infection fatality rate") that even the experts agree that the true lethalness of Covid-19 can't be accurately known yet. It will take years of sifting through death certificates and tons and tons of more antigen testing (to determine who had it but never needed treatment) before they can get a closer idea.

This article beautifully explains the MANY factors affecting the statistics. I learned a lot - I had never heard of "ascertainment bias" for example. You can decide if the attributed sources are legitimate enough for you.

Coronavirus: Why death and mortality rates differ

The analogy of a doctor telling a pilot how to do their job is infantile. I assume any doctor on my aircraft is likely intelligent and capable of forming an opinion about the flight. It does not stand to reason that they are clueless about anything other than medicine. It's a shame - and a bit alarming - so many so-called aviators have such little confidence in their own ability to think critically about anything other than aviation they feel the need to disparage anyone who posts musings they disagree with.

I have always advocated a science-based approach. Society is already racing towards a real-life Idiocracy, it's like we long for pre-Enlightenment Medieval times, between the anti-vaxxers and the Flat Earthers. No doubt in a few years we'll be back to bleeding people with leeches.

But accepting all advice from experts simply because they have a title or belong to a government agency is also dangerous. The WHO is politicized to the point of having little credibility whatsoever, to give only one example.

WHO’s early coronavirus response raises awkward questions about Beijing relationship
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photofly
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by photofly »

complexintentions wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:29 pmNo doubt in a few years we'll be back to bleeding people with leeches.
As a matter of fact...
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/321336
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corethatthermal
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

Can someone post the picture of the 3 stooges ( Idiots ) (Trudeau and his arse kissers ) wearing face masks as they speak to the public .
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corethatthermal
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

The Leading doctor in Canada ( Tam Tam ) has just announced that NEW evidence shows that masks work AND that asymptomatic transmission is possible LIAR !!! WE ALL knew all this ages ago but you failed to tell the public because there were no masks available for the general public ( trudeau gave them away )
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

Welcome to the world of political correctness. Incompetence put in the cabinet in order to have the sacred gender equality. Minimizing those terrible old white men. Calling anyone who complains a racist.

You voted for it...you got it.

We may have sunny ways...but there were no masks available in the drug store again today. Something to think about.
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Rockie
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by Rockie »

complexintentions wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:29 pm There are so many different factors in assessing death rates (ie "case fatality rate" vs "infection fatality rate") that even the experts agree that the true lethalness of Covid-19 can't be accurately known yet.
As noted with the "caveats" I mentioned, however the metric we do know paints an ugly picture and the assertion that it's nowhere near 3.4% is pulled straight out of someone's ass.
complexintentions wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:29 pm The analogy of a doctor telling a pilot how to do their job is infantile. I assume any doctor on my aircraft is likely intelligent and capable of forming an opinion about the flight. It does not stand to reason that they are clueless about anything other than medicine.
Pelmet is clueless about medicine. And having an intelligent conversation with someone with a brain is not the same as someone who knows nothing about aviation telling you how you should be planning your fuel. You really can't tell the difference?
pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:26 pm Bottom line, the article is similar to what I have been saying and I am happy to admit that there can be some modifications to my original plan to......"Save the World"

And all those earlier posters were insulting me for that.
As incredible as it seems you actually appear to believe your own bullshit.
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corethatthermal
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

“A non-medical mask can reduce the chance of your respiratory droplets coming into contact with others or land on surfaces.”

Tam suggested using material from cotton shirts, sheets or bandannas and elastic bands to create face coverings. Wearing a non-medical mask in the community, however, “has not been proven to protect the person wearing it,” Tam reiterated.
This is from one of the scum media orgs who accepted Trudeau's bribe, quoting Tam Tam

After being directed by her master ( Trudeau) and being directed by the team of Liberal Lawyers , AND trying to cover up her past lying and to prevent lawsuits etc she came to this statement! Everyone knew that droplets are BETTER stopped at its source than trying to use a "homemade" covering to filter out the droplets at the point of inhaling ! ( some are already dried by that point and in atomized/particulate/aerosol form) Tam Tam is a simple arse kisser who makes gooood $$$$ and goes to all the right parties. WATCH and you will see that when there is an abundance of PPE ( If ever) she will find that
new studies
have found that masks do actually greatly contribute to the reduction of illness and death ! Even pilots commanding B787 A/C etc are being played as fools !

It is normal to think that our government talking heads are speaking to YOU and ME . They are NOT, they are speaking to collectively 40 million voters, that is all. They DO NOT give a damn about the individual . That is normal government policy for thousands of years, get it through your heads stupid sheeple !!!
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pelmet
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by pelmet »

Rockie wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:46 pm
pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 4:26 pm Bottom line, the article is similar to what I have been saying and I am happy to admit that there can be some modifications to my original plan to......"Save the World"

And all those earlier posters were insulting me for that.
As incredible as it seems you actually appear to believe your own bullshit.
Well, I proved you wrong in every disagreement we had on the other forum(which seems to be why you left for a year or so) and will here too. 3.4% mortality rate is way too high.

The government needs to get the younger crowd out and immunized and save the economy while minimizing sickness. The present way invites the so-called second and third waves which can be worse than the first. It may actually lead to more deaths.

My idea has been forwarded to the appropriate authorities.
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Last edited by pelmet on Tue Apr 07, 2020 7:15 am, edited 4 times in total.
corethatthermal
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

The death rate for those infected MAY be between 0,5% to 10% depending on MANY factors, We will know better when all is over BUT we will NEVER know the true number BECAUSE no country will ever test all individuals for antibodies etc .
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by AuxBatOn »

pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:08 pm My idea has been forwarded to the appropriate authorities.
:lol:

Oh wait, you’re serious :shock:
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corethatthermal
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

Enlightenment Medieval times, between the anti-vaxxers and the Flat Earthers.
I met a flat earther the other day ! Ironically, we have 2 absolutes, ones who trust in government without question and others who trust in no one ! ( Of course, I believed in a flat earth ( self ex-planit ory,, ) until I flew my Cessna 1-filthy to 189,000 feet and could observe with my un-redacted eyes that indeed, the earth was a little less than flat !!! :wink:

Now, WRT anti-vaxxers, the OP ought to re-think their statement.

Those little children who have pre-existing conditions who stand a HIGH chance of being killed or injured FOR LIFE are NOT being diagnosed as vulnerable to repeated doses of vaccines at young ages which consist of attenuated actual viruses, poisons, adjuvants ETC. ( These all over-activate and compromise the immune system, not even mentioning the poisons directly injected past the protection system of the gut )
There are other MANY concerns WRT Vaccines that you likely do not have a clue about ! BUT, We all know the government and ITS experts are always right and are for you and me !!! FOOLS !

Of course, you and a billion others are conditioned to think group-speak and group-protection and if the actions of the government take your child,,,,well, its for the betterment of all the herd !!!!!!

I am not an anti-vaccer but rather a pro-CHOICE informed citizen of this country ( either way, I am grouped into the same "nutcase" classification)
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shimmydampner
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by shimmydampner »

Any time now, mods....
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dialdriver
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by dialdriver »

corethatthermal wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:46 pm
Enlightenment Medieval times, between the anti-vaxxers and the Flat Earthers.
I met a flat earther the other day ! Ironically, we have 2 absolutes, ones who trust in government without question and others who trust in no one ! ( Of course, I believed in a flat earth ( self ex-planit ory,, ) until I flew my Cessna 1-filthy to 189,000 feet and could observe with my un-redacted eyes that indeed, the earth was a little less than flat !!! :wink:

Now, WRT anti-vaxxers, the OP ought to re-think their statement.

Those little children who have pre-existing conditions who stand a HIGH chance of being killed or injured FOR LIFE are NOT being diagnosed as vulnerable to repeated doses of vaccines at young ages which consist of attenuated actual viruses, poisons, adjuvants ETC. ( These all over-activate and compromise the immune system, not even mentioning the poisons directly injected past the protection system of the gut )
There are other MANY concerns WRT Vaccines that you likely do not have a clue about ! BUT, We all know the government and ITS experts are always right and are for you and me !!! FOOLS !

Of course, you and a billion others are conditioned to think group-speak and group-protection and if the actions of the government take your child,,,,well, its for the betterment of all the herd !!!!!!

I am not an anti-vaccer but rather a pro-CHOICE informed citizen of this country ( either way, I am grouped into the same "nutcase" classification)
What?
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by rookiepilot »

AuxBatOn wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:42 pm
pelmet wrote: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:08 pm My idea has been forwarded to the appropriate authorities.
:lol:

Oh wait, you’re serious :shock:
Let me assist:

:roll: :lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol:
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corethatthermal
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

Any time now, mods...
Yes, please ban this person from open and constructive conversation in this aviation community
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Re: Corona Virus

Post by corethatthermal »

What?
Just shows how UTTERLY ignorant you truly are !
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