ALPA Jumpseat Question

This forum has been developed to discuss aviation related topics.

Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, ahramin, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog

hsilgnepilot
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:30 pm

ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by hsilgnepilot »

Question for other pilots members of ALPA;

I fly for an ALPA carrier myself, however we just recently joined ALPA. I have a trip coming up down south and was wondering exactly what reciprocal agreements we have. I have reached out to my mec but heard nothing.

Before we were ALPA, we had reciprocal agreements with AC, WS, TS, SWG, etc... however after joining, the company hasn’t updated the list. On the ALPA app, there’s a number of carriers listed there, and I was curious if now that I am a member I could request the “jumpseat” (cabin seating of course) on another ALPA company, say Delta (subject to captain approval of course). I have also emailed their MEC with no reply.
---------- ADS -----------
  

200hr Wonder
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2180
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:52 pm
Location: CYVR
Contact:

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by 200hr Wonder »

We have a list of all of our Jumpseat agreements. Each carrier has there own policies and procedures around how to go about getting the jumpseat. So no you can not, you would have to continue to use your ID90 or Zed fare agreements until such time as your ALPA Jumpseat rep establishes the agreements.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Cheers,

200hr Wonder

derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

It's all on the ALPA app. With the details of how to list.
---------- ADS -----------
  

hsilgnepilot
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:30 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by hsilgnepilot »

derateNO wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:26 am
It's all on the ALPA app. With the details of how to list.
Yeah I see that, my only question is are all ALPA members able to use that? Or is it dependant on who you work for? Or are all those airlines listed already pre negotiated agreements you get upon membership?
---------- ADS -----------
  

rxl
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

I believe that the agreements are airline specific.
Your best resource would be your ALPA jumpseat rep.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
valleyboy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 4:05 am
Contact:

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by valleyboy »

As a past MEC chair it's up to your property to get a jumpseat rep and work with ALPA. I suspect that most of the agreements that your company has now are null and void until ALPA and the company get together and update. Jumpseating in Canada is an all together different animal than in the States. It's their main gateway to get to work. A few years ago at the jumpseat conference the catch phrase was "no pilot gets left behind" It's such as serious business down there that captains will bump revenue passengeres to get a jumpseater on. Would that ever happen in canada -- not on your life.

There are also some hurdles getting to the gate in the US. RAIC technically is not an "official" security pass and they prefer flight crews in uniform at security. You need to go through crew bypass because you don't have a ticket and down there (at least in the past) they didn't issue boarding passes at the check in because you didn't have a ticket and the ticketing staff had no clue what you were talking about. Areas like Washington saw a lot of this sort of Canadian jumpseaters, farther south you go not so much.

When I left there were a certain number of airlines where your company and you had to be on a certain computer list that was accessed prior to boarding and if you were not on that list. no fly.

I would never venture on time off without a MYID travel back up tickets or at least the ability to quickly go on line and get a ticket but I have learned that sometimes when you need that with short notice it's just about the time MYID locks you out for some reason, murphy,s law I guess.

Just one word of advice. Always protect your jumpseat authority because if you piss someone off it could be gone at a blink of an eye. BTW it is tax airline tax exempt so air canada and WS and likely a few other charge you but I suspect it's their reservation system. In the states in the past anyway, you were not part of the passenger load and completely under the captain's authority. So no charge. Here it was only Transat and First Air who didn't charge anything. Likely changed now with the recent changes.

We had people jumpseating from Toronto to Japan and were treated like gold. It's a wonderful perk and coveted by the back end crew and they are always stirring the crap and would like to see pilots lose the privilege because they can't get it.

As far as ALPA is concerned your MEC needs to work a deal to get leave (some paid and an important clause in your contract) so they can participate in conferences and meetings. I know smaller properties have issues with this but ALPA is only as good as the participation. If your reps get frustrated or complacent everybody wants to blame the union for their troubles when it's ultimately their own fault for not growing a set and working with management. Managers need to be educated in what they also can get out of ALPA as well. Most are just seeing ALPA as a bad guy and not realising the benefits even for them. With a strong MEC/LEC you can filter grievances, which companies get sick of the chicken shit and throw the stupid ones out. It goes a long way to get management on board.

Sorry for the drift but all is connected because you can expect ALPA to solve you problems without rolling up your sleeves and pitching in. Best to go to Herdon and do ALPA 101
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Blueontop
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:01 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by Blueontop »

Have a different question related but not the same. Is a non-airline Pilot, say a corporate pilot with a RAIC, able to Jumpseat? For example, he arrives at the terminal in uniform and RAIC, gets a standby boarding pass from the check in agent and proceeds to the gate to request from the captain to Jumpseat? I never thought this was the case but was told from another pilot who claims he did this. As I stated I always thought the pilot had to be employed at an airline and the said airline have a reciprocal agreement with the Jumpseat airline.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
HiFlyChick
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:27 am

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by HiFlyChick »

Blueontop wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:34 am
Have a different question related but not the same. Is a non-airline Pilot, say a corporate pilot with a RAIC, able to Jumpseat? For example, he arrives at the terminal in uniform and RAIC, gets a standby boarding pass from the check in agent and proceeds to the gate to request from the captain to Jumpseat? I never thought this was the case but was told from another pilot who claims he did this. As I stated I always thought the pilot had to be employed at an airline and the said airline have a reciprocal agreement with the Jumpseat airline.
The last time I managed to do this was pre-9/11. When I asked a friend of mine a few years ago, he said he couldn't take his own mother (or was that because his mother didn't have a RAIC...?) and that only company employees could be in the jumpseat. I'm actually surprised that there are reciprocal agreements for jumpseats, but maybe it was longer ago than I remember that I talked to my friend - things might have changed a bit since then
---------- ADS -----------
  

derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

valleyboy wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:00 am
As a past MEC chair it's up to your property to get a jumpseat rep and work with ALPA. I suspect that most of the agreements that your company has now are null and void until ALPA and the company get together and update. Jumpseating in Canada is an all together different animal than in the States. It's their main gateway to get to work. A few years ago at the jumpseat conference the catch phrase was "no pilot gets left behind" It's such as serious business down there that captains will bump revenue passengeres to get a jumpseater on. Would that ever happen in canada -- not on your life.

There are also some hurdles getting to the gate in the US. RAIC technically is not an "official" security pass and they prefer flight crews in uniform at security. You need to go through crew bypass because you don't have a ticket and down there (at least in the past) they didn't issue boarding passes at the check in because you didn't have a ticket and the ticketing staff had no clue what you were talking about. Areas like Washington saw a lot of this sort of Canadian jumpseaters, farther south you go not so much.

When I left there were a certain number of airlines where your company and you had to be on a certain computer list that was accessed prior to boarding and if you were not on that list. no fly.

I would never venture on time off without a MYID travel back up tickets or at least the ability to quickly go on line and get a ticket but I have learned that sometimes when you need that with short notice it's just about the time MYID locks you out for some reason, murphy,s law I guess.

Just one word of advice. Always protect your jumpseat authority because if you piss someone off it could be gone at a blink of an eye. BTW it is tax airline tax exempt so air canada and WS and likely a few other charge you but I suspect it's their reservation system. In the states in the past anyway, you were not part of the passenger load and completely under the captain's authority. So no charge. Here it was only Transat and First Air who didn't charge anything. Likely changed now with the recent changes.

We had people jumpseating from Toronto to Japan and were treated like gold. It's a wonderful perk and coveted by the back end crew and they are always stirring the crap and would like to see pilots lose the privilege because they can't get it.

As far as ALPA is concerned your MEC needs to work a deal to get leave (some paid and an important clause in your contract) so they can participate in conferences and meetings. I know smaller properties have issues with this but ALPA is only as good as the participation. If your reps get frustrated or complacent everybody wants to blame the union for their troubles when it's ultimately their own fault for not growing a set and working with management. Managers need to be educated in what they also can get out of ALPA as well. Most are just seeing ALPA as a bad guy and not realising the benefits even for them. With a strong MEC/LEC you can filter grievances, which companies get sick of the chicken shit and throw the stupid ones out. It goes a long way to get management on board.

Sorry for the drift but all is connected because you can expect ALPA to solve you problems without rolling up your sleeves and pitching in. Best to go to Herdon and do ALPA 101
Great post.
---------- ADS -----------
  

derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

Blueontop wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:34 am
Have a different question related but not the same. Is a non-airline Pilot, say a corporate pilot with a RAIC, able to Jumpseat? For example, he arrives at the terminal in uniform and RAIC, gets a standby boarding pass from the check in agent and proceeds to the gate to request from the captain to Jumpseat? I never thought this was the case but was told from another pilot who claims he did this. As I stated I always thought the pilot had to be employed at an airline and the said airline have a reciprocal agreement with the Jumpseat airline.
No one can use the ACTUAL jump seat on an airline unless they are authorized to do so. For example at Air Canada the only Pilots permitted to use the flight deck jump seat are AC, Rouge, Jazz and SKR Pilots. That's it. If you work at Perimeter and have a RAIC and JS agreement, it's not the actual JS you use. It's just called a jump seat agreement but you sit in the back.

I know there are a number of airlines trying to change this, and I'm fully on board with that. If we gave access to the flight deck to pilots across the Canadian industry it would end up helping everyone in the long run.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Blueontop
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:01 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by Blueontop »

I should have been more specific, I know “jumpseating” is sitting in the back. I have “jumpseated” with a previous airline gig. Now I’m in a corporate situation and thought I couldn’t anymore until a colleague told me his anecdote. So I have wondered if I could using the system I proposed in my question
---------- ADS -----------
  

ant_321
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:43 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by ant_321 »

Blueontop wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:59 pm
I should have been more specific, I know “jumpseating” is sitting in the back. I have “jumpseated” with a previous airline gig. Now I’m in a corporate situation and thought I couldn’t anymore until a colleague told me his anecdote. So I have wondered if I could using the system I proposed in my question
Airlines have a list of specific companies they have agreements. I don’t see anyone having a corporate outfit on that list.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
valleyboy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 4:05 am
Contact:

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by valleyboy »

Both AC and WS and others require you to list prior to the flight and they have your company on file l-so no a RAIC does not give you the ability to "jumpseat"
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Blueontop
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 163
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:01 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by Blueontop »

A RAIC does not give you ability to “jumpseat” but being a commercial pilot does is what I was getting at with my original question. I always thought that what has been stated a couple times regarding having to be with a carrier with a reciprocal was the case. Until a colleague said he had done this (the caveat was it may have been in the states or overseas), but I questioned his anecdotes about his experiences and he insisted that it was possible to do this. However it seems that if I, say hypothetically, went to a check in agent and asked for a standby boarding pass to get through security, I would not even get that far because the checkin agent wouldn’t even issue it. Perhaps I should just try it one day and see if it works lol.

If the tradition of “jumpseating” was based on the common courtesy given to fellow commercial pilots then what I have stated is not that far-fetched, just only so in our modern pre-911 world
---------- ADS -----------
  

Caterpillar
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:09 pm
Location: Iqaluit, NU

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by Caterpillar »

derateNO wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:59 pm
No one can use the ACTUAL jump seat on an airline unless they are authorized to do so. For example at Air Canada the only Pilots permitted to use the flight deck jump seat are AC, Rouge, Jazz and SKR Pilots. That's it. If you work at Perimeter and have a RAIC and JS agreement, it's not the actual JS you use. It's just called a jump seat agreement but you sit in the back.
In the event of a full flight with rev passengers and the perimeter guy is the only one on standby requesting for the JS, he will not be allow to take the actual JS?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Since I’m flying the King Air, does that qualify me to fly the Queen of the skies?

Capt. Underpants
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:04 am

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by Capt. Underpants »

Caterpillar wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:17 pm
derateNO wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:59 pm
No one can use the ACTUAL jump seat on an airline unless they are authorized to do so. For example at Air Canada the only Pilots permitted to use the flight deck jump seat are AC, Rouge, Jazz and SKR Pilots. That's it. If you work at Perimeter and have a RAIC and JS agreement, it's not the actual JS you use. It's just called a jump seat agreement but you sit in the back.
In the event of a full flight with rev passengers and the perimeter guy is the only one on standby requesting for the JS, he will not be allow to take the actual JS?
That’s right. It’s addressed in the regulations.
flight crew member means a crew member assigned to act as pilot or flight engineer of an aircraft during flight time;

Admission to Flight Deck

701.28 No person shall be admitted to the flight deck of an aeroplane other than

(a) a flight crew member;

(b) a crew member performing their duties;

(c) an inspector of the civil aviation authority of the state where the aeroplane is registered; or

(d) a person who has expertise related to the aeroplane, its equipment or its crew members and who is required to be in the flight deck to provide a service to the air operator.
---------- ADS -----------
  

derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

Caterpillar wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:17 pm
derateNO wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:59 pm
No one can use the ACTUAL jump seat on an airline unless they are authorized to do so. For example at Air Canada the only Pilots permitted to use the flight deck jump seat are AC, Rouge, Jazz and SKR Pilots. That's it. If you work at Perimeter and have a RAIC and JS agreement, it's not the actual JS you use. It's just called a jump seat agreement but you sit in the back.
In the event of a full flight with rev passengers and the perimeter guy is the only one on standby requesting for the JS, he will not be allow to take the actual JS?
Not unless they work for the company or a feeder with special access.

There are a number of airlines trying to change this but it will take forever since Transport Canada is involved.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
valleyboy
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 541
Joined: Tue May 03, 2016 4:05 am
Contact:

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by valleyboy »

Not unless they work for the company or a feeder with special access.

There are a number of airlines trying to change this but it will take forever since Transport Canada is involved.
Actually not that difficult but the catch is it requires a special amendment to a company COM. For some reason a lot of companies balk at this. ALPA even sent out boiler plate wording. Our property for one refused to do it. The higherups were never big fans of reciprocal jump seating.
---------- ADS -----------
  

derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

valleyboy wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:09 am
Not unless they work for the company or a feeder with special access.

There are a number of airlines trying to change this but it will take forever since Transport Canada is involved.
Actually not that difficult but the catch is it requires a special amendment to a company COM. For some reason a lot of companies balk at this. ALPA even sent out boiler plate wording. Our property for one refused to do it. The higherups were never big fans of reciprocal jump seating.
Which is ironic because it would help them all out by making commuting much easier for everyone. Less chance of delays or people booking off.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by derateNO on Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Capt. Underpants
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:04 am

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by Capt. Underpants »

valleyboy wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:09 am
Not unless they work for the company or a feeder with special access.

There are a number of airlines trying to change this but it will take forever since Transport Canada is involved.
Actually not that difficult but the catch is it requires a special amendment to a company COM. For some reason a lot of companies balk at this. ALPA even sent out boiler plate wording. Our property for one refused to do it. The higherups were never big fans of reciprocal jump seating.
They would require an exemption to 701.28.
---------- ADS -----------
  

rxl
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

Simply having a RAIC does not entitle someone to “jumpseat”. If your company does have a reciprocal jumpseat agreement and you intend to take advantage of the privilege, you MUST have your RAIC with you along with your company ID and licence all for presentation to the captain when you board the flight.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
HiFlyChick
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:27 am

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by HiFlyChick »

Thanks for the clarification- I'm still using the old term as being "the" jumpseat. I'm a 703 pilot, not 705, but pre-9/11 I did on a number of occasions get to sit in the cockpit jumpseat when the flight was overbooked and I gave my RAIC to the gate agent and said "Please check if the Capt might be willing to have me in the jumpseat", but of course I had actually purchased a ticket.

No wonder I was lost in the discussion - doh!
---------- ADS -----------
  

derateNO
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 288
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:15 pm

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by derateNO »

rxl wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:20 pm
Simply having a RAIC does not entitle someone to “jumpseat”. If your company does have a reciprocal jumpseat agreement and you intend to take advantage of the privilege, you MUST have your RAIC with you along with your company ID and licence all for presentation to the captain when you board the flight.
Technically even working for the company doesn't entitle you to the jumpseat either.

Captain's call.

I always enjoyed denying JS requests by the gate agents for a DH pilot. They got real snippy about it.
---------- ADS -----------
  

ahramin
Rank Moderator
Rank Moderator
Posts: 5905
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 5:21 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by ahramin »

Capt. Underpants wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:38 pm
valleyboy wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:09 am
Not unless they work for the company or a feeder with special access.

There are a number of airlines trying to change this but it will take forever since Transport Canada is involved.
Actually not that difficult but the catch is it requires a special amendment to a company COM. For some reason a lot of companies balk at this. ALPA even sent out boiler plate wording. Our property for one refused to do it. The higherups were never big fans of reciprocal jump seating.
They would require an exemption to 701.28.
Transport Canada issued a blanket exemption to 701.28 a couple years after 9/11. The sticky wicket is that there must be confirmation of the employment status of the jumpseater. In the US they quickly put the CASS system together to address the similar FAA requirements.

That we accept the situation in Canada is simply a matter of lack of respect for ourselves and our colleagues.
---------- ADS -----------
  

rxl
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:17 am
Location: Terminal 4

Re: ALPA Jumpseat Question

Post by rxl »

derateNO wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:29 pm
rxl wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:20 pm
Simply having a RAIC does not entitle someone to “jumpseat”. If your company does have a reciprocal jumpseat agreement and you intend to take advantage of the privilege, you MUST have your RAIC with you along with your company ID and licence all for presentation to the captain when you board the flight.
Technically even working for the company doesn't entitle you to the jumpseat either.

Captain's call.

I always enjoyed denying JS requests by the gate agents for a DH pilot. They got real snippy about it.
Of course the use of the jumpseat in the FLIGHT DECK is always (almost) at the captain’s discretion.
The discussion is about reciprocal jumpseat passes for OAL, or own company pilots to ride in an open seat IN THE CABIN for low or no cost. A lot of people rely on this privilege to get to and from work.
I don’t know how anyone would enjoy denying JS requests. If the use of the cockpit jumpseat makes someone’s life just a little bit easier and there is no good operational reason not to use it, then why deny it? Besides, an extra set of trained eyes and ears is not a bad thing to have in the flight deck.
It is, however, at a DH pilot’s discretion whether or not they give up their assigned seat in the cabin to ride up front.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “General Comments”