Phone call during reserve/rest does not start your duty day

[digits_]

Hello,

In the book of Shady Medevac and 703 Practices, I recently learned about a new chapter from a pilot friend.

The situation:
- Crew is on reserve and needs to have phone switched on at all times, including during rest periods
- After phone call, crew has one hour to get to the airport, and up to one hour to get airborne
- Company calls at 7:00 for a flight at 9:00

Question: When does the duty day start? 7:00 (when the phone rang) or 8:00 (when they need to report at the airport)?

Company claims the phone call interrupts the rest, but does not start the duty day. Pilot says the duty day starts at 7:00 because they have to answer their phone.

I've always operated under companies that started the duty day the moment of the interruption in a reserve/on call scenario. Curious as to what other experiences are. Ideally I would like to find a CAR that either allows or prohibits it.

[Capt. Underpants]

IMHO, their duty period starts when they arrive at work. If it started when the phone rings, then it would need to start when my alarm goes off too.

[172_Captain]

Where I work, duty days start the moment you are contacted by the company. I suspect it’s done this way because in my line of work, it’s happens somewhat regularly that I’ll delicne a trip due to weather, or company will change their mind regarding a trip.

[propfeather]

703 medevac here, ours starts when the phone rings.

[iflyforpie]

minimum rest period means a period during which a flight crew member is free from all duties, is not interrupted by the air operator or private operator, and is provided with an opportunity to obtain not less than eight consecutive hours of sleep in suitable accommodation, time to travel to and from that accommodation and time for personal hygiene and meals; (période de repos minimale)

[digits_]

minimum rest period means a period during which a flight crew member is free from all duties, is not interrupted by the air operator or private operator, and is provided with an opportunity to obtain not less than eight consecutive hours of sleep in suitable accommodation, time to travel to and from that accommodation and time for personal hygiene and meals; (période de repos minimale)

Yes, but in my example the company agrees that the crew rest ended at 7:00.

They claimed duty doesn't start till 8:00. It was unclear in what state of limbo the crew were between 7:00 and 8:00. Reserve?

[NotDirty!]

This is an interesting topic. I have worked in a medevac op where duty started when the phone rang, and in an airline where duty starts at your assigned check in time, even if they called you for the trip hours earlier.

I personally like having a little more time to get to work. I would much rather get a call at 0700 for a 0900 departure than a 0800 call for the same trip.

The CARs has provisions for “delayed reporting time” where the company notifies you of a delay in reporting for an assigned trip can delay the start of your duty day by up to 3 hours. How would that work if their call started your day?

[digits_]

This is an interesting topic. I have worked in a medevac op where duty started when the phone rang, and in an airline where duty starts at your assigned check in time, even if they called you for the trip hours earlier.

I personally like having a little more time to get to work. I would much rather get a call at 0700 for a 0900 departure than a 0800 call for the same trip.

The CARs has provisions for “delayed reporting time” where the company notifies you of a delay in reporting for an assigned trip can delay the start of your duty day by up to 3 hours. How would that work if their call started your day?

Good point, but at the airlines you have a schedule. The delayed reporting time is to delay a previously defined departure time. In my example with a crew on reserve, there is, by definition, no delay, as there was no established reporting time.

But you're right. In your case the airline crew is also a bit in limbo: what happens between the call and the new reporting time? It's obviously not rest, as they got called, but apparently also not duty. Something in between?

On the other hand, in the reserve example, if it doesn't start your day, you could theoretically get called all day every hour with trip drops and new trips, without every going flying, untill late in the evening when you are supposed to be ready for a 14 hour day. How would that work then?

[derateNO]

There's no established reporting time or schedule when on reserve though. And on reserve your duty starts at check in.

You can get called at ten PM and your duty will start at midnight for a long haul flight. After already being awake for 12+ hours.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

At my company (705), we are not able to fly past 16 hours from the start of the call out window on the first day of the reserve assignment.

This essentially means that our duty day starts at the beginning of the call out window.

[SAR_YQQ]

In SAR we use the time we crossed the threshold into the hangar. We aren’t subject to CARS so I wouldn’t be able to provide a reference.

[co-joe]

I don't have a CARs reference but I believe that an FCM on call, duty starts when the phone rings, whereas on reserve I believe it's when FCM reports for duty.

[Ki-ll]

Here is the CARs reference.

flight duty period means the period that begins when the earliest of the following events occurs and ends at engines off or rotors stopped at the end of a flight:

(a) the flight crew member carries out any duties assigned by the private operator or the air operator or delegated by the Minister before reporting for a flight,

(b) the member reports for a flight or, if there is more than one flight during the flight duty period, reports for the first flight,

(c) the member reports for positioning, and

(d) the member reports as a flight crew member on standby;

It looks like the company is dong this legally, as long as the crew had the rest completed by 7.

[digits_]

Thank you!

What prevents the company to constantly call you for, let's say 8 hours with updated flight start times and then finally gives you a 14 hour duty day?

I feel like I am missing a piece of the puzzle.

[Ki-ll]

I think this would do it:
700.18 Where a flight crew member is notified of a delay in reporting time before leaving a rest facility and the delay is in excess of 3 hours, the flight crew member’s flight duty time is considered to have started 3 hours after the original reporting time.