Snowbird replacement aircraft

[GoHomeLeg]

Have there ever been discussions to replace the Tutor for the T-155.


How long will they continue using the Tutor?

[7ECA]

Yep, few times that I'm aware of. Mind you the Tutor is like a lot of equipment in the CAF inventory, getting long in the tooth; but with no "suitable" (read, Canadian made, or able to be produced in Canada under licence from the OEM) replacement available.

Last I heard, the Tutor is going to be staying on until 2030 - but will likely require "a bit" of work to keep them on strength until then.

Realistically, the most likely replacement (or the one that makes the most sense) would be the BAE Hawk; used by the Red Arrows, as well as a training aircraft for fast jet pilots.

The extremely lame replacement would be something like the Harvard II, or any other turboprop trainer. Or, we could just wait until 2050 (or which ever year is the latest target for the Hornet replacement) and give the Snowbirds some clapped out Hornets?

[valleyboy]

Pitts would be a treat

[flyinhigh]

Under this government you will not see any replacement. I do agree though that the Hawk would be an amazing bird to use.

[Eric Janson]

The Aerobatics Team in the UAE (Al Fursan) uses the Aermacchi MB-339. Seems like a very capable Aerobatics platform.

They put on a great show - had the pleasure of watching them practice on multiple occasions. Too bad I couldn't take any pictures.

Videos on YouTube.

[BMLtech]

Word is that although geriatric, the tutor is the ideal platform for the snowbirds. Cheap, simple, easy to maintain, and a mountain of spare airframes and parts are held in reserve. I highly doubt it will be replaced anytime soon. Probably doesn’t even need modern avionics for a pure vfr operation.

[AuxBatOn]

While there are spare parts, airframe fatigue is an issue.

The Snowbirds’ Tutors are LPV capable. All they are missing is a Mode S/ADS-B capable transponder. They fly IFR more than they fly VFR. They need to get from A to B and, in a Tutor, you don’t get very far at 10,000 ft.

[schnitzel2k3]

Pull a Blue Angels fleet transition and swap the old CF188 airframes in. 9 Hornets zipping around the skies in red and white livery....

[phillyfan]

I hereby declare the Snowbirds. "Non Essentials" and sentence them to House Arrest, where they can collect Trudeau's meager $2000 a month welfare.

[frosti]

100% it will be jet, you can bet the RCAF will fight tooth and nail to avoid props, just isn't the same.

Buy a fleet of Boeing T-7 Red Hawks to replace the Hawks, allocate 15-20 to the Snowbirds. Easy transition for students who don't want fighters or a Cold Lake/Bagotville posting, huge part supply stock, familiar F404 engine for techs. The Tutor does its job well because it's slow and can stay at show center for the whole performance. Blue Angels, Thunderbirds and even the Red Arrows - do a loud pass and gone for 3-5 minutes to reset for another. T-7 would likely have the same issue, but there is nothing modern out there, to my knowledge, that can have a good cruise range while able to fly low and slow in front of crowds. CF-18 snowbirds aren't happening, there was an article a while back mentioning this, it would cost roughly 9x more to operate them in snowbirds roles. Glass cockpits are coming for the Tutors in a quasi-modern avionic suit, just need to find a suitable engine replacement and they'd fly the thing to 2050 if they could.

[tailgunner]

The Hawk trainers have been identified as having a nearing shelf life.
I believe that once the F35 is selected as the F18 replacement again, there will be an examination of the lead in training aircraft. The Hawk apparently has some issues replicating what some Airforces would like to see regarding 5 Gen training.
I predict that the next Snowbird aircraft will be the TX trainer from Boeing that will be equipping the USAF training fleet.
My two Cents.
Cheers

[jakeandelwood]

Well let's just hope someone like Deifenbaker isn't running the country when the time comes to make a decision. A fleet of 150 Aerobats might look good in the Snowbird paint scheme though.

[linecrew]

I think trying to use the Hawks or Harvard IIs might be difficult because the somewhat unusual operating agreement they were acquired under. They are owned by the government but leased to a third party, CAE, for the NFTC program.

[2R]

Cessna Scorpion small cheap twin that can be used for SAR and is cheap . Did I mention it was cheap

Maybe Viking could build them under licence . Might even make a few for export for poor countries that cannot afford to provide their military with the tools required to do the Job

[Blakey]

Go big or go home. By 9 of these and watch the mouths drop open. Imagine a 9=plane roll! Bonus capability in the off season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDE3Dp3LGZg

[Human Factor]

I once thought that the mothballed CF-5s would have made an excellent Tutor replacement for the Snowbirds but then it's been a couple of decades since then...

[RippleRock]

I once thought that the mothballed CF-5s would have made an excellent Tutor replacement for the Snowbirds but then it's been a couple of decades since then...

Thinking the same thing. The CF-5 was actually a cool looking, sleek "mach capable" machine, unlike the tubby "Cessna-like" Tudor. Given how long the Government has taken to replace our 40 year old Hornets, I won't be even be thinking about holding my breath for a Tudor replacement.

The Tudor is --so-- Canadian. It nicely symbolizes the "ancientness" of our frontline fighter fleet on the world stage. We are the "thrift" recyclers and endless maintainers of --insignificant numbers of ancient junk--.

Not surprised no one takes our forces seriously.

[valleyboy]

The Tudor is --so-- Canadian. It nicely symbolizes the "ancientness" of our frontline fighter fleet on the world stage. We are the "thrift" recyclers and endless maintainers of --insignificant numbers of ancient junk--.

I have to agree, in this generation of bottom line and wanting the "big bucks" I think military demonstration teams are dreams of years gone by. The main motivation to create a team was to sell the armed forces as a career, it's not like that anymore. Young pilots entering the industry is money oriented and the first question now is how much do you pay. They also want to establish their seniority so going to the military for the large part is not going to fill their expectations and in fact be a liability due to loss of seniority.

The canadian military has been going through a complete identity crisis brought on by the merge of the services, with budget cuts and political BS they have been neutered to the point of embarrassment. This is not a slight towards the members. They are for the most part brave and dedicated people who have been given a "sow's ear" and expected to produce a "silk purse" . Time to regroup and move into the 21st century.

I know the snowbirds have taken on some form of mystical canadiana persona but they need to leave or go big and that likely won't ever happen.

[co-joe]

My vote is for the F16. 20 Million bucks, 1 engine, who knows, we might end up liking them after all.

[Human Factor]

Why should the Snowbirds have better equipment than the mainline air force?