A mess to regain confidence.

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rookiepilot
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A mess to regain confidence.

Post by rookiepilot »

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-strict ... 6?mod=e2tw

Airlines are coming face to face with a problem that may crimp the nascent rebound in travel: who wears a mask and who doesn’t.

Some airlines are trying to strictly enforce face coverings during flights. Others have given it cursory attention. As with the question of blocking middle seats—some carriers are doing it and some aren’t—the inconsistency worries passengers concerned about virus exposure in tight confines.

Todd Silver of Beverly Hills, Calif., found himself in a group stuck at the door to an airplane. “There was no social distancing. There was limited ventilation. People were just jammed in there. One or two had their masks pulled down below the chin,” he says. The crowd took under 10 minutes to disperse but it “seemed like forever,” Mr. Silver says.

American, United and Delta, which have been enforcing face-covering requirements at boarding and not in-flight, say they will get tougher starting this week. Each airline says passengers who refuse to wear masks in-flight without a valid reason may be restricted from future flights on the airline. The length of time on the no-fly list will be determined by the incident. JetBlue and Hawaiian already have a process in place to put noncompliant passengers on their own airline no-fly list.

A survey by consulting firm Oliver Wyman found 85% of travelers said cleanliness at airports and on airplanes would affect their decision to travel—as high a factor as ticket price. Masks are key to perceptions of airline cleanliness. Seeing unmasked passengers raises red flags for many travelers or would-be travelers.

“I’ve been doing consumer surveys a long time, and I’ve never seen another factor show up as important as price in impacting a purchase decision,” says Oliver Wyman partner Jessica Stansbury.

In Southwest’s own weekly surveying of customers, the three most important things to passengers onboard now are clean surfaces, clean air and masks, says Andrew Watterson, Southwest’s chief commercial officer.

Airlines have branded stepped-up cleaning procedures to showcase them. Delta even created a global cleanliness division within the company. Airlines are feeling their way through an unprecedented situation. “You can’t really see too far into the future on customer sentiment,” Mr. Watterson says.

While some state and local jurisdictions have imposed face-covering requirements trying to slow the spread of Covid-19, none apply to airlines, which are subject to federal regulation. And while the Transportation Department said last week it was distributing 86.8 million cloth coverings to airports for air passengers, it has issued no requirements that they be worn.

A DOT spokeswoman says the agency, which includes the Federal Aviation Administration, expects “the traveling public to follow airline crew directions and policies” and follow guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The CDC recommends cloth face coverings to reduce the spray of drops from potentially infected people when they sneeze, cough or talk. Face shields are another option. (Your best bet for avoiding breathing in the virus is an N95 respirator.)

Some passengers now see not wearing masks as a political statement; others simply go about it haphazardly, not covering noses and mouths.


Some have figured out that airlines make exceptions for passengers with medical conditions. So, as with emotional-support dogs, passengers can declare their own medical inability to cover their faces and airlines can’t question them.

Jeff Moll of Orange County, Calif., has a newborn baby at home, so he suited up in a N95 respirator mask and construction goggles when he had to fly to Sacramento to see a client. “You’re just looking at everybody and you’re fearful,” he says.

Once in the air, quite a few people took masks off. “I was just hoping no one was sick,” Mr. Moll says.

Alex Lloyd of Memphis, Tenn., was on a recent flight when one passenger wasn’t wearing a mask and a nearby passenger asked him to put it on. “He put it on but yelled at the lady,” Mr. Lloyd says.

U.S. airlines, with the exception of Allegiant, all say they require passengers to wear masks during flights. (Allegiant strongly encourages but doesn’t require it.) You can take a mask off for eating and drinking.
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Localizer
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by Localizer »

You can sum it up quite simply .. people are idiots. The airline isn't "jamming" them into the jetway, these mindless fools just move like cattle on top of one another's ass because they're impatient. They can't take any responsibility for themselves and want to be lead by the hand .. its insane .. Wash your hands, wear a mask, and don't talk to the person next to you. You've been told countless times how to protect yourself from this virus .. put the measures into practice.
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fishface
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by fishface »

Exactly. People need to get a grip.
Airports/Aircraft are probably going to be the safest place because of all the measures being put in place.
Nobody wants to ride in an aircraft but they’re ok being packed into a a recently opened restaurant or better yet - protesting.
Wear a fcking mask, wash your hands and if the guy next to you is hacking in your face, then maybe move..

Regain confidence? Money talks. Give the cattle some sweet flight/hotel deals - done!
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by digits_ »

Localizer wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:12 pm You can sum it up quite simply .. people are idiots. The airline isn't "jamming" them into the jetway, these mindless fools just move like cattle on top of one another's ass because they're impatient.
Yes they are. When boarding, the gate agents check your ticket and allow you on the jetway. You as a passenger can not see how many people are there, and if there are any line ups or jams. If the gate agent doesn't scan your tickets, there will be no line up on the jetway. Pax can do stupid things, but you can't blame them for everything.

Also, having to wear a mask during the flight will make me think twice about buying a ticket. If their goal is to attract passengers, not having to wear a mask will do much more.
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fishface
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by fishface »

Ever been to Asia? People wear masks all day. Who cares.
10 hour flight to Tokyo and people wear their masks the whole time. And this is prior to COVID. Just something to get used to, at least for the time being.

The simple fact of wearing a mask will make you think twice about buying a ticket? C’mon, Karen!
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digits_
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by digits_ »

fishface wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:16 pm Ever been to Asia? People wear masks all day. Who cares.
10 hour flight to Tokyo and people wear their masks the whole time. And this is prior to COVID. Just something to get used to, at least for the time being.

The simple fact of wearing a mask will make you think twice about buying a ticket? C’mon, Karen!
Right. I guess we'll see how many members of the "cattle" as you put it so eloquently will want to put up with wearing a mask.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by fishface »

I mean you’re not wrong..people are going to say to themselves “I don’t want to wear this thing for x hours” but to make that the purchase/not purchase factor for a ticket? Don’t think so.
Masks are normal things to wear now, whether it’s a temporary or permanent thing? - I don’t know. But I honestly don’t see it being an issue..there are more legitimate concerns than that.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by twa22 »

People just seem to be complete idiots when it comes to flying and air travel... It's like most are clueless 5 year olds. Most of the time, I'm the last person boarding, and not because I show up late. I wait until I can see the last person get on the jet way, then I proceed not long after him/her, exactly for the reason that people cram the jetway, then they are trying to stuff their oversized bag in the overhead compartment, or just like to stand in the aisle for some reason. All these things lead to you just waiting around, crammed in between people and it's unpleasant...so airlines forcing people to wear masks? It would be nice but it likely won't happen, people are too ignorant
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by Heliian »

In Canada, masks were made mandatory for air travel, did you guys miss that memo?

For the time being, I'll be wearing a mask, even in the usa. It's my protection and to keep myself from spreading any possible virus, for your protection. There's a good percentage of people who will just do whatever they want and not care about consequences, some people are just too stupid.

Our collective responses have been working so far, despite the ones who think its a joke or a conspiracy.

America is really showing its true colours through all this, they are so unorganized from state to state that I almost feel bad for them.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by garfield »

Wear a mask in the plane, wear a mask at the beach and at the restaurant and at the bar and/or be at least 6 feet from any person who's not having the same adress as you,

even if I can fly 1st class for FREE and get a 5 star hotel for 5$ I don't really see the point of travelling.

Sure if you travel with your family and rent a house with a nice view or do a hike with your girlfriend, could be interesting otherwise it's just a big waste of time.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by Eric Janson »

fishface wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:20 pm Exactly. People need to get a grip.
Airports/Aircraft are probably going to be the safest place because of all the measures being put in place.
Nobody wants to ride in an aircraft but they’re ok being packed into a a recently opened restaurant or better yet - protesting.
Wear a fcking mask, wash your hands and if the guy next to you is hacking in your face, then maybe move..

Regain confidence? Money talks. Give the cattle some sweet flight/hotel deals - done!
I don't agree - I've been positioning regularly since March. I regard this as the riskiest activity I do. I have no idea who is on the aircraft with me and who or what they have been exposed to. Social distancing is a complete joke at the airport and on board.

Flying as a passenger right now is not an enjoyable experience in any way - given the choice I wouldn't do it at all right now.

I am isolating myself as much as realistically possible outside of flying.

As has been stated correctly above people are stupid - already cases of people travelling who had symptoms and said nothing.

Air travel is how this spread globally in the first place - the WHO opposed suspending flights.

I suspect this discussion is a bit premature as it appears a second wave is now starting in China.

In one week I expect a spike in cases in N America as a result of the BLM protests.

I expect we will have to go back into lockdown again.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by ayseven »

Flying first class is pretty good. Bloody expensive, but nonetheless. My problem is I hate wasting the time sleeping, because I want to enjoy it as long as I can. And the only reason you would ever want to board first really, is to have a place to put your jacket and small bag in the overhead - another thing you don't worry about in bigshot class.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by Localizer »

Yes they are. When boarding, the gate agents check your ticket and allow you on the jetway. You as a passenger can not see how many people are there, and if there are any line ups or jams. If the gate agent doesn't scan your tickets, there will be no line up on the jetway. Pax can do stupid things, but you can't blame them for everything.
Digits .. you seem to have a hard on for airlines .. are you Gabor Lukacs? Passengers need to have some responsibility for their own safety during the times of covid, the airlines can’t be babysitters to mature adults that resort to child like behaviour because they’re in an airport.

Fishface didn’t call them “cattle” ... I did.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by shimmydampner »

digits_ wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:34 pm
Localizer wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:12 pm You can sum it up quite simply .. people are idiots. The airline isn't "jamming" them into the jetway, these mindless fools just move like cattle on top of one another's ass because they're impatient.
Yes they are. When boarding, the gate agents check your ticket and allow you on the jetway. You as a passenger can not see how many people are there, and if there are any line ups or jams. If the gate agent doesn't scan your tickets, there will be no line up on the jetway. Pax can do stupid things, but you can't blame them for everything.
Surely you must be joking. Just because you are admitted to the jet way does not mean you are obligated to brainlessly get as close as humanly possibly to the person which you ultimately encounter in front of you. Localizer is right: people are idiots. No need to be an idiot apologist.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by rookiepilot »

Let's say everyone adhered to social distancing lining up to board, in the jetway and the plane while boarding. How well would that work logistically in a busy airport?

The inherent problem with flying in this situation is the same as cruising:

A lot of people will not want to be trapped, for an hour or a day.

Hence "confidence" -- and filtering out the serial lying going on. It's amazing to me how the different voices can't even get their lies straight. That does not inspire confidence in mom and pop flyer.

Second problem: Rich peeps flying on premium tickets are older. More vulnerable. Protesters are young, and those in the hot tub below -- and comparatively broke.

This is going to be a long slog.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by Rockie »

Eric Janson wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:46 pm

In one week I expect a spike in cases in N America as a result of the BLM protests.
In the first two pictures masks are not mandatory, in the third they were. In the first picture people are protesting against institutionalized racism and the murder of yet another unarmed black man by police, in the second and third they were just out having fun and getting entertained. Seems pretty obvious why North America is still in the first wave nevermind the second.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by photofly »

digits_ wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:34 pm Also, having to wear a mask during the flight will make me think twice about buying a ticket. If their goal is to attract passengers, not having to wear a mask will do much more.
I'm waiting for the airline that will make everyone else wear a mask, and let me do as I please. That's where my money is going.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by ayseven »

Why the big deal about the mask? I don't see it as an inconvenience; the less I have to breathe and interact with the great unwashed the better. I am going to wear gloves too.
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by digits_ »

Localizer wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:53 pm
Yes they are. When boarding, the gate agents check your ticket and allow you on the jetway. You as a passenger can not see how many people are there, and if there are any line ups or jams. If the gate agent doesn't scan your tickets, there will be no line up on the jetway. Pax can do stupid things, but you can't blame them for everything.
Digits .. you seem to have a hard on for airlines .. are you Gabor Lukacs? Passengers need to have some responsibility for their own safety during the times of covid, the airlines can’t be babysitters to mature adults that resort to child like behaviour because they’re in an airport.
Allright. Let's say I don't want to cause a jam in the jetway. So I'll refuse to show my ticket to the gate agent when I'm in front of the line. What do you think will happen? If there is a second line, that line will just move ahead. If there is only one line, I'll probably be asked to step aside.

Why do you think 80 pax would be able/willing to flawlessly keep track of the amount of people on the jetway, if 2 company employees who are in charge of the boarding process can't be trained or bothered to do so?
Localizer wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:53 pm Fishface didn’t call them “cattle” ... I did.
My apologies, you *both* called them cattle. Credit where credit is due!
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
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Re: A mess to regain confidence.

Post by Localizer »

Allright. Let's say I don't want to cause a jam in the jetway. So I'll refuse to show my ticket to the gate agent when I'm in front of the line. What do you think will happen? If there is a second line, that line will just move ahead. If there is only one line, I'll probably be asked to step aside.

Why do you think 80 pax would be able/willing to flawlessly keep track of the amount of people on the jetway, if 2 company employees who are in charge of the boarding process can't be trained or bothered to do so?
How about this .. The airport authority puts the proper markings on the ground (airlines don't own the airports and jetways), now passengers use their common sense and stand on the markings.

Do we really need markings for people to keep proper social distancing?? We shouldn't .. but just like that asshole that needs to get 6 inches from your face to have a conversation, some people just don't get it.

Does the supermarket solution make you feel more comfortable Digits?
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