Airplane stuck in the states

[photofly]

Entry to the US by air is restricted: here’s the relevant exemption:

Any foreign national travelling as a nonimmigrant under section 101(a)(15)(C) or (D) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(15)(C) or (D), as a crewmember or any alien otherwise travelling to the United States as air or sea crew;

Can’t be bothered to look up the US Immigration and Nationality Act, but flying your own plane doesn’t get you a non-immigrant crew visa, so I’m fairly sure this exemption for entry doesn’t apply.

On the return, the quarantine exemptions for returning to Canada are here:
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... l#exempted

Persons in the trade or transportation sector who are important for the movement of goods or people, including truck drivers and crew members on any aircraft, shipping vessel or train, and that cross the border while performing their duties or for the purpose of performing their duties;

If it’s your own plane, you’re clearly not in the transportation sector, you’re not crossing the border performing your duties, and you’re not exempt.

[digits_]

Thank you for the reference!

The way it is written it specifies that crew members of any aircraft are included in the transportation sector. I don't see anything that says that crew members need to be empoyed.

Would you say a private pilot is a crew member on his airplane? I would say yes.

I agree that a private pilot flying for fun would by most definitions not be included in the transportation sector, but your quote specifically includes them.
The OP was also going down to the states to pick up an airplane, not for a regular day trip. He is thus moving goods, albeit his own goods and for free.

[photofly]

When I shave my beard, I’m not part of the personal care sector.

When I cook dinner, I’m not part of the food service sector.

If you’re flying your own plane, you’re not in the transportation sector.

[digits_]

When I shave my beard, I’m not part of the personal care sector.

When I cook dinner, I’m not part of the food service sector.

If you’re flying your own plane, you’re not in the transportation sector.

If I make a rule that applies to permits required for "people active in the food service sector, including amateur BBQ cooks serving family in their back yard", then that would apply to you, even though you are not in the food service sector.

If a private pilot is considered a flight crew member, then he would be part of "Persons in the trade or transportation sector who are important for the movement of goods or people, including truck drivers and crew members on any aircraft"

They even mention it can be on any aircraft.

[photofly]

Legislation does not exist in a vacuum, and should be interpreted in a purposive way. What is the purpose of this exemption? It is to allow airlines and the transport industry, considered to be so vital to the functioning of the nation that strict and universal quarantine rules should be exempted, to function in way that it could no longer do if those people operating that industry had to quarantine on entering Canada. The transport industry is without any doubt not affected by private aircraft owners having to quarantine. There seems to me to be little doubt that if a forum where professional expertise in interpreting laws is exercised ever had to examine this issue, it would decide exemption does not apply.

There is no more overriding reason to exempt someone from quarantine on fetching their private aircraft from a foreign country than there is to exempt them from fetching their private car, or their pet ocelot.

If you honestly think that fetching a private aircraft is deserving of quarantine exemption, you are not treating the quarantine rules with the seriousness the government does.

[molsonb]

molsonb

This isn’t a great place to ask this kind of complicated question. Expect opinion rather than an accurate answer.
Firstly, there is a story.
Secondly, there are the facts.
Your question is pretty barren as far as the facts are concerned.

1. Is the aircraft Canadian registered?
2. Is the aircraft a Commercial or Private airplane?
3. Who flew the aircraft to the States? The owner or yourself?
4. How did you enter the States or have you?
5. Are you a CPL holder?
6. Are you paid by this company or this owner to bring the airplane home?

Answers to these questions might help you get the answer you’re after.

Gino

Sorry, I didn't think it would of snowballed into more.

It's my Canadian registered experimental, that I built in the states at the company's build center.
I'm good with the 14day quarantine, no complaints there, lots to do around the house/yard. It's just funny how I never heard on the news that we could fly commercial into the States. I guess the media doesn't want to report on it.

Thanks everyone for the info and messages. Will look into this.

[digits_]

Legislation does not exist in a vacuum, and should be interpreted in a purposive way. What is the purpose of this exemption? It is to allow airlines and the transport industry, considered to be so vital to the functioning of the nation that strict and universal quarantine rules should be exempted, to function in way that it could no longer do if those people operating that industry had to quarantine on entering Canada. The transport industry is without any doubt not affected by private aircraft owners having to quarantine. There seems to me to be little doubt that if a forum where professional expertise in interpreting laws is exercised ever had to examine this issue, it would decide exemption does not apply.

If we assume the goal of the legislation is to prevent COVID spread, yet to allow certain activities as you mentioned, then why would the legislator care *who* performs the action?

The situation here is that an airplane/good needs to be transported from place A to place B. This is allowed, the only question is, does the pilot flying from A to B need to quarantine upon arrival in B, correct?

If the government is ok with pilot P travelling across the border multiple times a day, who is interacting with multiple people, yet does not have to quarantine? Why then would the government not be ok with pilot Q doing the exact same thing, but only once?

You might think then that it is logical that only airline pilots or freight pilots are allowed to do this, as they need to transport hundreds of people and thousands of pounds of goods. Yet the legislator also allows pilots from private jets to be exempt. Often only carrying one person and personal luggage. Why can that pilot fly across the border without quarantine, yet if he were to do the same thing in his own personal airplane, he couldn't? What about owner/operators flying their own jet around under a management AOC?

I don't think it is a sure thing that it would be ruled that the OP needs to quarantine upon return into Canada.

There is no more overriding reason to exempt someone from quarantine on fetching their private aircraft from a foreign country than there is to exempt them from fetching their private car, or their pet ocelot.

The quote:

Persons in the trade or transportation sector who are important for the movement of goods or people, including truck drivers and crew members on any aircraft, shipping vessel or train, and that cross the border while performing their duties or for the purpose of performing their duties

Does not specify the drivers of cars. If you own a personal boat or a personal semi which you drive yourself, then you would qualify for this exemption. An ocelot owner is not included in there, unless he also happens to be flying his own airplane.

If you honestly think that fetching a private aircraft is deserving of quarantine exemption, you are not treating the quarantine rules with the seriousness the government does.

I don't, but I also don't think the exemption should be in place for private jets. If the rules allow one, the other should be allowed as well.
Either way, what I think is deserving doesn't really matter. It is the legislator who specified "crew members on any aircraft". They could have specified "commercially" or "airline" or a min weight etc.

[photofly]

If the government is ok with pilot P travelling across the border multiple times a day, who is interacting with multiple people, yet does not have to quarantine? Why then would the government not be ok with pilot Q doing the exact same thing, but only once?

Pilot Q isn’t doing the exact same thing.

Pilot P is part of an essential industry, facilitating essential travel and the movement of goods whose value to the country and the economy is judged to outweigh the risks of COVID-19 transmission.

Pilot Q is repatriating a homebuilt, personal property, which has very little value to the country and doesn’t justify the extra risk of COVID-19 transmission that a quarantine exemption would entail.

The emergency legislation has a serious intent. Stop playing word games to try to game it.

[SeawingsUAE]

Interesting topic! I’m in exactly this situation, and going down to the states next week (driving) to collect my personal kit aircraft which has been there since late last year having some modifications completed.
(I had planned to collect it early spring this year)

While I am collecting a personal aircraft, and flying it home, I also flt a private jet for a family. So I have discussed this at length with the border authorities.
The consensus is that while on return with the aircraft I am not subject to a quarantine should I need to go to work, the responsible follow on action should be to self isolate, which of course I intend to do.
Should I be required to fly my work jet I would of course be highly aware of my personal condition prior to doing so, exactly as I would on any other day.
Canada border authorities do not differentiate between commercial and private activities with respect to pilots returning by air to Canada. They cannot, as its beyond the scope of their mandate to police every pilot and their subsequent activities. They have to rely on the Integrity of the individual to conduct themselves appropriately.
I think some here are focusing on the terms “commercial and private” The virus does not differentiate.
As stated this is about risk management and mitigation.
In driving down to collect my aircraft and returning by air, I will not be attending sporting events, or frequenting bars and beaches. In fact, I will probably come into less direct contact with people than some do locally with a trip to Walmart.

[AirFrame]

The quote:

Persons in the trade or transportation sector who are important for the movement of goods or people, including truck drivers and crew members on any aircraft, shipping vessel or train, and that cross the border while performing their duties or for the purpose of performing their duties

Does not specify the drivers of cars. If you own a personal boat or a personal semi which you drive yourself, then you would qualify for this exemption. An ocelot owner is not included in there, unless he also happens to be flying his own airplane.

You would only qualify for this exemption if you are a Person in the trade or transportation sector. Not if you're Joe Nobody who just wants to ignore the restrictions and go pick up your plane.

[Found]

What I have seen is private pilots hiring commercial pilots to move the airplane across the border either way. As for quarantine, follow the rules issued by Transport Canada for a commercial pilot crossing the border for work.

[Gino Under]

molsonb

In light of the information you’ve provided the only obstacle you’re likely to face is entering the US.
Canada Customs cannot and will not deny you re-entry when you fly home if you are a Canadian citizen. That’s not their mandate. They collect taxes and duties, therefore the customs and excise responsibilities fall to them.
The other obstacle would be what is and isn’t allowed. Can you give US customs a valid reason to enter the US that meets the present restrictions? This would be your first obstacle. If they let you in your golden.
A personal home built would likely be viewed as having no impact on US commerce and therefore not “essential”.
The 14 day quarantine is a given. You’ll have to quarantine. They will take your address and phone number. They will follow up.
Don’t be fooled by those who say a private pilot is considered crew. That conclusion is absolutely wrong, misleading and simply inaccurate. A pilot licence doesn’t automatically qualify you as crew.

The Customs Act definitions are:

commercial carrier means the owner or operator of a commercial conveyance. (transporteur commercial)

commercial conveyance means any conveyance that is used for the commercial transportation of persons or goods by air, water or land. (moyen de transport commercial)

crew member means a person assigned to duty on board a commercial conveyance. (membre d’équipage)

Are you “assigned to duty on board a commercial conveyance”?

Pretty simple, eh?

Gino

[co-joe]

What kind of plane is it? I'm not doing anything for the next year or so...

[nbinont]

FYI: https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/u-s-tr ... -1.5607741
Stay safe all.

[Gino Under]

molsonb

Now that more of your story is known.
If your kit plane is finished it will require an “N” registration. You will need an FAA pilot certificate to fly it in US airspace (or someone with an FAA certificate) to get it to the border. You can’t put a Canadian registration on it until all duties and taxes have been paid. In other words, until you Legally import the aircraft. Then you can peel off your “N” registration and reveal or apply your Canadian registration and fly it to your home base with your Canadian pilot licence.
THEN you can quarantine for 14 days.
I hope this helps?

Gino

[molsonb]

molsonb

Now that more of your story is known.
If your kit plane is finished it will require an “N” registration. You will need an FAA pilot certificate to fly it in US airspace (or someone with an FAA certificate) to get it to the border. You can’t put a Canadian registration on it until all duties and taxes have been paid. In other words, until you Legally import the aircraft. Then you can peel off your “N” registration and reveal or apply your Canadian registration and fly it to your home base with your Canadian pilot licence.
THEN you can quarantine for 14 days.
I hope this helps?

Gino

You can actually build experimentals outside of Canada, but still be Canadian registered. I just had to fly down a Canadian inspector twice for the pre-cover up and final inspection. All that's done. I also have a USA conversion PPL license, so I could fly while building the plane in the states. Just had to do some paperwork and a checkout ride. Pretty easy process.

This thread answered my question. You can still cross the border in the air, just not by land. Thanks everyone. I'm still dumbfounded I didn't know/hear about that.

[Gino Under]

molsonb

So, now it’s down to duties and taxes. The importation of your aircraft.
With your paperwork in order you should be good to go.
Before that though, you’ll have to convince US Customs before you board a flight to America that your entry into the States is ‘essential’. Be sceptical before you buy a ticket.
In any event, best of luck.

Gino

[Cessna 180]

molsonb

So, now it’s down to duties and taxes. The importation of your aircraft.
With your paperwork in order you should be good to go.
Before that though, you’ll have to convince US Customs before you board a flight to America that your entry into the States is ‘essential’. Be sceptical before you buy a ticket.
In any event, best of luck.

Gino

border restrictions do not apply to entries by air.

[JasonE]

border restrictions do not apply to entries by air.

BINGO

[Gino Under]

Border restrictions by air DO apply.
https://ca.usembassy.gov/travel-restric ... act-sheet/
All you have to do is read.

Gino