WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by PostmasterGeneral »

Inverted2 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:51 am
PostmasterGeneral wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:08 pm It wasn't the toddler who was non-compliant. It was the 3 year old, who, is required to wear a mask.
Try getting a fussy 3 year old to do anything especially wear a mask for several hours. It’s like trying to keep a mask on an angry cat. :lol:
Sounds like shitty parenting to me? Kids act how you tell them to act. It’s called discipline.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by AuxBatOn »

PostmasterGeneral wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:03 pm
Inverted2 wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:51 am
PostmasterGeneral wrote: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:08 pm It wasn't the toddler who was non-compliant. It was the 3 year old, who, is required to wear a mask.
Try getting a fussy 3 year old to do anything especially wear a mask for several hours. It’s like trying to keep a mask on an angry cat. :lol:
Sounds like shitty parenting to me? Kids act how you tell them to act. It’s called discipline.
:lol: :lol:

Do you even have kids?!
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by JBI »

ALPApolicy wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:32 pm digits_, I’m in the fence whether it was a poor PR move. The CEO is on record as saying zero tolerance. This cancellation will stick in the minds of the passengers that zero tolerance is exactly that. If you choose to create problems with mask usage, you will not win that fight.

I have seen the photo of the police on board the flight. This tells me a lot. As a 16 year Captain with WestJet, I can count on one hand the number of times I remember having to have the police attend to a situation on board. The vast majority of the times, myself or an FA or the gate agent were all that were necessary to deal with matters that had escalated. I suspect that you and I will never hear the full details of the incident unless “Mr bad buddy pass user” decides to pursue legal means all the way to court. WJ will not release publicly the details of the incident. It is possible I will hear third/fourth hand information at work that will fully vindicate the actions of the crew. It is almost a complete certainty that WJ did not make the decision to ban the family from travelling without a fulsome review of all the facts as supplied by pilots, cabin crew, airport staff, and the police.
I agree with ALPApolicy (surprise! :wink: ). The initial news reports weren't completely accurate on the events reported so while there was some blow-back, it definitely will reinforce to passengers that the company is serious on the mask enforcement.

Whether the crew was right or not, or overreacted or not, as a buddy pass traveler IT DOESN'T MATTER. If you're traveling on passes and the crew asks you to leave the aircraft, you do it. Period. It may be that the crew is completely wrong, there may be a good learning situation after the fact and it may have someone who traveled on passes decide to pay full fare on a different airline, but it doesn't matter. I read my friends/family the riot act before I give them passes (and truthfully don't give them to certain people I don't trust).

The third/fourth hand information that I have heard was that the cancellation decision was much more about the refusal of the buddy pass travelers to exit the aircraft and how it escalated that caused the crew to not feel comfortable to continue the flight.

I don't know if the crew would have handled this differently if it was a full fare passenger nor do I know what information the crew had, but again, it doesn't matter if the family was traveling on passes.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by EPR »

Wrong on so many levels, both crew and pax!
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by northernpilot2 »

It just amazes me how people think these days and how the rules are made. Are you telling me that just because of age we decide who should wear mask? So lets imagine this toddler's birthday was at midnight. Before midnight they dont need a mask, but as soon as its 12am all of a sudden they need a mask now.

This world is honestly getting crazier by the day. Jeez people get it together.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by photofly »

northernpilot2 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:54 am It just amazes me how people think these days and how the rules are made. Are you telling me that just because of age we decide who should wear mask? So lets imagine this toddler's birthday was at midnight. Before midnight they dont need a mask, but as soon as its 12am all of a sudden they need a mask now.

This world is honestly getting crazier by the day. Jeez people get it together.
Who’d have thought. One day before your nineteenth birthday, you can’t buy a drink. One day later... you can! Crazy.

Born just before midnight 31 December, you start school one year, born two minutes later, you go to school the next year. Jeez, people. Make your minds up.

If your kid is 1.449m tall around here they can ride in a car but need a booster seat. Grow one more lousy millimetre and now they don’t need a booster seat at all! Seriously, you couldn’t make this shit up if you tried.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by sstaurus »

Yes, we live in a society. Great observations. :roll:
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by ALPApolicy »

JBI wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:41 pmI agree with ALPApolicy (surprise! :wink: )...
No sir, not a surprise. You have extensive training in logic :smt008 :lol:

As an employee, I too am expected to be inconspicuous when travelling stand by. Most of the time I have succeeded. But not always. Last year I forgot where I was and found myself seated on-board a WJ plane wearing a Trump 2020 ball cap and a great shirt with a large, very large photo of Trump’s face on the front and back.

After a few minutes, the lead FA leaned over and told me that the Captain would like to see me. I ventured forward and was delighted to see a great guy from Saskatchewan, son of a well known hog farmer from the eastern part of the province. Reluctantly it seemed, he informed me that there had been a few complaints on my attire. So I put on a coat and ate my hat and everyone was happy.

The rules of standby travel are clear: don’t draw attention to yourself.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by rookiepilot »

Not being a commercial pilot, the analogy I see is this -- the paying passenger point of view -- remember the customer in all of this discussion?

I'm sitting down to dinner at a nice steakhouse with my family. It's the only one in town. Myself and 200 other guests are just having their dinners put in front of us.

At one of the other tables, an employee and his friends are drunk and being rowdy, and not listening to the servers trying to get them to quiet down. Police are called, and eventually the rowdy party leaves.

Instead of that being the end of it, the manager comes and kicks everyone out and closes the restaurant, because the servers are now too upset to work.

This is a training issue, and that shouldn't penalize 200 other well behaved passengers because a few Karen's can't handle things, and call the police.

I don't agree with the presumption that because the police were called, it was justified, the flight was cancelled, it was justified. I've seen both racist and abusive attitude flight crew in many years of travel. Very rare, but I've seen it.

As a passenger with a busy schedule I have Zero tolerance for the customer service that was shown here, zero tolerance works both ways.

Want to cancel the flight? Compensate me for my time -- a lot. In cash. Did that happen?

I accept the pass holder may have been out of line. Who knows? What about the 98% of well behaved pax who got their flight cancelled?

They heard: Get out, and STFU. Flying is a privilege, not a right. Nice. So is having a job, people, when aviation is slow.

Let's remember the facts: WJ says a "majority" of their "guests" were "accommodated" the next day. Which means, some guests with children, had to exit a plane at midnight, lose 2 or more days of their schedule, and find a place to stay, stand in lines with their children.

This is a very, very big deal. WJ couldn't call in another crew? In Calgary? Now?

I won't, and haven't been, flying Westjet, because my perception is their service has gone way way down, and they don't care about their well behaved passengers. I'll happily pay much more to fly on another carrier without that problem.

As a passenger I don't care about Westjet or their problems. I'm busy. We're all busy. just want to get where I need to go.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by Rockie »

Inverted2 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:50 am Projectile vomit could spew Kung Flu into the air and kill 99.7% of the other WJ guests on board. I think it’s time for a toddler ban. If it saves just one life.
As the biggest threat to the world with this virus has been and remains the United States, you would appear more intelligent and less racist if you called it by its proper name.

Airlines have been transporting hundreds of thousands of people sitting in close quarters for hours at a time, but no outbreaks have been attributed to them. Why not do you think?

Could it be because they are careful and rigidly enforce the rules?

There’s probably a lesson in there somewhere for dimwits.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by rookiepilot »

Bede wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:26 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:18 pm So is having a job -- and paying customers, too.
They weren't paying customers. They were on buddy passes. This is the kind of crap that results in the buddy pass system getting cancelled. Absolutely pathetic.
I like Bede how you express your time is so valuable that your $80 per hour freelance instruction rate is "charity", but you mention nothing about the time value of the innocent passengers whose flight got cancelled for up to 2 days.
Interesting
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by '97 Tercel »

Rockie wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:32 am
Inverted2 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:50 am Projectile vomit could spew Kung Flu into the air and kill 99.7% of the other WJ guests on board. I think it’s time for a toddler ban. If it saves just one life.
As the biggest threat to the world with this virus has been and remains the United States, you would appear more intelligent and less racist if you called it by its proper name.

Airlines have been transporting hundreds of thousands of people sitting in close quarters for hours at a time, but no outbreaks have been attributed to them. Why not do you think?

Could it be because they are careful and rigidly enforce the rules?

There’s probably a lesson in there somewhere for dimwits.
Here we go....cue the 8 pages of pointless arguing by the same cast and crew....

:roll:
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by Rockie »

Why do you think there's been no outbreaks due to airline travel? Pertinent question I would think...
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by digits_ »

rookiepilot wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:54 am Not being a commercial pilot, the analogy I see is this -- the paying passenger point of view -- remember the customer in all of this discussion?

I'm sitting down to dinner at a nice steakhouse with my family. It's the only one in town. Myself and 200 other guests are just having their dinners put in front of us.

At one of the other tables, an employee and his friends are drunk and being rowdy, and not listening to the servers trying to get them to quiet down. Police are called, and eventually the rowdy party leaves.

Instead of that being the end of it, the manager comes and kicks everyone out and closes the restaurant, because the servers are now too upset to work.

This is a training issue, and that shouldn't penalize 200 other well behaved passengers because a few Karen's can't handle things, and call the police.

I don't agree with the presumption that because the police were called, it was justified, the flight was cancelled, it was justified. I've seen both racist and abusive attitude flight crew in many years of travel. Very rare, but I've seen it.

As a passenger with a busy schedule I have Zero tolerance for the customer service that was shown here, zero tolerance works both ways.

Want to cancel the flight? Compensate me for my time -- a lot. In cash. Did that happen?

I accept the pass holder may have been out of line. Who knows? What about the 98% of well behaved pax who got their flight cancelled?

They heard: Get out, and STFU. Flying is a privilege, not a right. Nice. So is having a job, people, when aviation is slow.

Let's remember the facts: WJ says a "majority" of their "guests" were "accommodated" the next day. Which means, some guests with children, had to exit a plane at midnight, lose 2 or more days of their schedule, and find a place to stay, stand in lines with their children.

This is a very, very big deal. WJ couldn't call in another crew? In Calgary? Now?

I won't, and haven't been, flying Westjet, because my perception is their service has gone way way down, and they don't care about their well behaved passengers. I'll happily pay much more to fly on another carrier without that problem.

As a passenger I don't care about Westjet or their problems. I'm busy. We're all busy. just want to get where I need to go.
Big like! Very eloquently put.

Especially this part:
They heard: Get out, and STFU. Flying is a privilege, not a right. Nice. So is having a job, people, when aviation is slow.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by Mach1 »

I'm not going to armchair this event because I was not there and don't have all the facts.
rookiepilot wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:54 am Not being a commercial pilot, the analogy I see is this -- the paying passenger point of view -- remember the customer in all of this discussion?

I'm sitting down to dinner at a nice steakhouse with my family. It's the only one in town. Myself and 200 other guests are just having their dinners put in front of us.

At one of the other tables, an employee and his friends are drunk and being rowdy, and not listening to the servers trying to get them to quiet down. Police are called, and eventually the rowdy party leaves.

Instead of that being the end of it, the manager comes and kicks everyone out and closes the restaurant, because the servers are now too upset to work.

However, I am just going to weigh in on this analogy because there is a sizable flaw or two in it. You need to add a couple of things to your steakhouse narrative. First thing you need to add is that the other restaurant patrons start yelling at the wait staff and the police when they arrive. So, the mood of the whole restaurant is hostile (as clearly shown on the videos run in the press). The next thing you need to add is that after the noisy patrons and police leave, you are going to seal the restaurant up like a time-lock vault. No one leaves and no one enters. All those angry patrons are now locked inside that restaurant for the next, say, 4 hours or so with no way to leave and very little ability to get out of their seats or move around.

Try that and rerun the idea again and see if you feel the same way.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by rookiepilot »

Mach1 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:08 pm
However, I am just going to weigh in on this analogy because there is a sizable flaw or two in it. You need to add a couple of things to your steakhouse narrative. First thing you need to add is that the other restaurant patrons start yelling at the wait staff and the police when they arrive. So, the mood of the whole restaurant is hostile (as clearly shown on the videos run in the press). The next thing you need to add is that after the noisy patrons and police leave, you are going to seal the restaurant up like a time-lock vault. No one leaves and no one enters. All those angry patrons are now locked inside that restaurant for the next, say, 4 hours or so with no way to leave and very little ability to get out of their seats or move around.

Try that and rerun the idea again and see if you feel the same way.
It changes nothing on what I said.
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Last edited by rookiepilot on Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by Mach1 »

Well, unless you were there, your opinion means nothing, and you weren't there because you already said you don't and haven't flown WestJet... Unless you are lying about that.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by altiplano »

Biff2 wrote: Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:29 pm
YA! Lesson here-stop making me call people names to prove I’m right! How dense are you stupid dimwits!!!
And it’s the China Virus or Wuhan Flu, get it right, that’s what mr president trump says, so it’s true!
Geez the dumbness of people is just stupid!
The rules for babies is clear-they can kill everyone if you aren’t careful!! Wrap them in plastic bubbles if you are stupid enough to try and take them on a plane!!
Come on people, we are in this together! Start doing what I say or else we will all die, again!!
Just follow the rules for gods sake! Wear a mask for sex and use glory holes if you are in BC! The experts are smarter than you dumbasses!
Succinct description of the time we are living in.
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by co-joe »

Why is it so fucking hard for people to just do what cabin crew tells them to?
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Re: WJ calls in the Swat Team on Maskless Toddler

Post by 2R »

What kind of SWAT team wears Bicycle helmets and Flammable Lycra Cycle shorts ? Those guys look more like mall cops than SWAT.
I thought the SWAT teams used Nomex flamproof gear and bullet proof skull caps .
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