People just want their money back, forget credits.

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Roar
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by Roar »

I made no comment about govt bailout so your use of that topic as a rebuttal to my argument is irrelevant, but since you brought it up I don't think the govt should be bailing out any private businesses ( and that includes the company I work for, Ive been laid off because of Covid also). As to my original point the ticket purchaser is free to use another airline if they don't like the terms or pay the extra fare to guarantee a full refund.
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:06 pm
Roar wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:52 pm It seems to me that the people upset by Westjets refusal to refund the ticket price should look in the mirror to find the person responsible. All they had to do before purchasing their respective ticket was read the Westjet policy which is clearly laid out on their website. Quite simply only Premium and Business Flex fares are eligible for cash refunds outside 24hrs after purchase. When you buy a lower class fare you are accepting that refunds in the form of original payment are not part of the agreement, this is a risk and consequence of the "cheap seat".
I am sympathetic to the customers that are out cash in these times but I also believe in personal responsibility, a traveller not reading and understanding the terms of the agreement they are entering into when its clearly spelled out, is not the airlines fault.
Seems to me the airlines feel as you do, but only in one direction.

They want their customers to accept maximum "personal responsibility" -- as you call it -- for any and all adverse circumstances, but scream for government money for themselves.

It's extremely hypocritical, and no different than bombardier.

These are the same airlines that spent most of their money buying back stock and issuing bonuses to the C suite. Not saving any money for a rainy day, and recessions happen for many reasons.

I know of people -- companies -- who were fully prepared for an event like this. They had reserves. Plans. Airline industry was not.

So I should open my wallet for the C - suite to refurnish their Forest Hill and Rosedale mansions?

They don't give a shit about the employees, let alone their customers.

So let them burn.
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rookiepilot
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by rookiepilot »

Roar wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:31 pm I made no comment about govt bailout so your use of that topic as a rebuttal to my argument is irrelevant, but since you brought it up I don't think the govt should be bailing out any private businesses ( and that includes the company I work for, Ive been laid off because of Covid also). As to my original point the ticket purchaser is free to use another airline if they don't like the terms or pay the extra fare to guarantee a full refund.
Ok. If keeping customers money from cancelled flights is "Ok"

What's to stop an airline from advertising 3 or 4 X the flights they intend to complete, collect prepayments, then cancel any of them that aren't full? Nice racket.

These are smart people. They know future demand. Can't tell me this far in, they are being "surprised".

Many of the flying public will think this is wilful deception.

As a laid off pilot, is that what you want your industry to portray to rebuild confidence?

Again, I don't care what the CTA says. I don't care what buried fine print says.

The public will get very angry. These are the ones who are paying you.......

I shake my head.
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digits_
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by digits_ »

Aren't those refund clauses only for when the pax cancel, not for when the airline cancels?

Weren't there stories of business travellers getting duped as well? Doesn't sound that argument holds up quite well.
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rookiepilot
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by rookiepilot »

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Roar
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by Roar »

If an airline were to do as you suggest people would quit flying with them and they'd go bankrupt, free market at work.
Maybe that's what will happen to Westjet over this, if so, so be it.
Most likely what will happen is a few people will bitch and bellyache, swear never to fly Westjet again then in 6 months time they will need to fly somewhere will go to book their ticket and choose the airline not based on past experience but rather who has the lowest fare.
And no the public are not the ones paying for me by any stretch of the imagination.
rookiepilot wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:33 pm
Roar wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:31 pm I made no comment about govt bailout so your use of that topic as a rebuttal to my argument is irrelevant, but since you brought it up I don't think the govt should be bailing out any private businesses ( and that includes the company I work for, Ive been laid off because of Covid also). As to my original point the ticket purchaser is free to use another airline if they don't like the terms or pay the extra fare to guarantee a full refund.
Ok. If keeping customers money from cancelled flights is "Ok"

What's to stop an airline from advertising 3 or 4 X the flights they intend to complete, collect prepayments, then cancel any of them that aren't full? Nice racket.

These are smart people. They know future demand. Can't tell me this far in, they are being "surprised".

Many of the flying public will think this is wilful deception.

As a laid off pilot, is that what you want your industry to portray to rebuild confidence?

Again, I don't care what the CTA says. I don't care what buried fine print says.

The public will get very angry. These are the ones who are paying you.......

I shake my head.
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YYZSaabGuy
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

Roar wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:31 pm If an airline were to do as you suggest people would quit flying with them and they'd go bankrupt, free market at work.
Maybe that's what will happen to Westjet over this, if so, so be it.
Most likely what will happen is a few people will bitch and bellyache, swear never to fly Westjet again then in 6 months time they will need to fly somewhere will go to book their ticket and choose the airline not based on past experience but rather who has the lowest fare.
And no the public are not the ones paying for me by any stretch of the imagination.
Give your head a shake: if the cheap-ass public you enjoy denigrating has no interest in buying tickets or traveling with you, exactly how long do you think your employer can fund its cash burn, own its aircraft or for that matter employ you? Oh, wait...... :roll:
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altiplano
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by altiplano »

If people decided not to travel because of covid, they wear that, if they didn't buy a refundable fare then they are lucky to get even a credit IMO.

But if someone buys a ticket, intends to go, and the airline cancels the flight for commercial reasons. I think they should get a refund to make alternate plans.

If the government forces the cancellation of the flight, they should wear it, helping both Canadians and Airlines in the process.
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ayseven
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by ayseven »

The airlines are just doing what all big companies do: when times are good, "...but the SHAREHOLDERS!", and when times are bad, "WAAAAAAA... where is the government to help our poor employees?". It is rotten right now for so many businesses and working people. Everyone is just trying to find their way through this unforeseen situation, and survive, physically and financially, including the airlines.
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by co-joe »

Roar wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:52 pm It seems to me that the people upset by Westjets refusal to refund the ticket price should look in the mirror to find the person responsible. All they had to do before purchasing their respective ticket was read the Westjet policy which is clearly laid out on their website. Quite simply only Premium and Business Flex fares are eligible for cash refunds outside 24hrs after purchase. When you buy a lower class fare you are accepting that refunds in the form of original payment are not part of the agreement, this is a risk and consequence of the "cheap seat".
I am sympathetic to the customers that are out cash in these times but I also believe in personal responsibility, a traveller not reading and understanding the terms of the agreement they are entering into when its clearly spelled out, is not the airlines fault.
Exactly!
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Roar
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by Roar »

Because we don't all fly for the airlines, smart guy. I don't fly for the traveling masses looking for the cheapest ticket possible. I have been up until Covid, flying for one family. So spare me your eye rolling.
YYZSaabGuy wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:28 am
Roar wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:31 pm If an airline were to do as you suggest people would quit flying with them and they'd go bankrupt, free market at work.
Maybe that's what will happen to Westjet over this, if so, so be it.
Most likely what will happen is a few people will bitch and bellyache, swear never to fly Westjet again then in 6 months time they will need to fly somewhere will go to book their ticket and choose the airline not based on past experience but rather who has the lowest fare.
And no the public are not the ones paying for me by any stretch of the imagination.
Give your head a shake: if the cheap-ass public you enjoy denigrating has no interest in buying tickets or traveling with you, exactly how long do you think your employer can fund its cash burn, own its aircraft or for that matter employ you? Oh, wait...... :roll:
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YYZSaabGuy
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by YYZSaabGuy »

Roar wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:50 pm Because we don't all fly for the airlines, smart guy. I don't fly for the traveling masses looking for the cheapest ticket possible. I have been up until Covid, flying for one family. So spare me your eye rolling.
YYZSaabGuy wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:28 am
Roar wrote: Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:31 pm If an airline were to do as you suggest people would quit flying with them and they'd go bankrupt, free market at work.
Maybe that's what will happen to Westjet over this, if so, so be it.
Most likely what will happen is a few people will bitch and bellyache, swear never to fly Westjet again then in 6 months time they will need to fly somewhere will go to book their ticket and choose the airline not based on past experience but rather who has the lowest fare.
And no the public are not the ones paying for me by any stretch of the imagination.
Give your head a shake: if the cheap-ass public you enjoy denigrating has no interest in buying tickets or traveling with you, exactly how long do you think your employer can fund its cash burn, own its aircraft or for that matter employ you? Oh, wait...... :roll:
Doh! Dumb comment on my part: my apologies. Eye roll rescinded. And I hope you are able to get back to work soon!
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rookiepilot
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by rookiepilot »

Roar wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:50 pm Because we don't all fly for the airlines, smart guy. I don't fly for the traveling masses looking for the cheapest ticket possible. I have been up until Covid, flying for one family. So spare me your eye rolling.
Roar,

Fine. The public doesn't pay you. I retract that as well.

You are still denigrating them, as all paying on price. And paying on price doesn't mean they don't deserve protection from the regulator, from bait and switch, or other unfair tactics, just like any other industry.

If Westjet knows they can't afford to complete a partial load flight, don't advertise it in the first place, then cancel it. Covid is no longer an excuse. It's established.

Not all of us are like that either. I fly premium and business sometimes, as do others. Yet I'm forced into a discount model that doesn't value my time, because the model is completely run like Ryanair.

I do what I do when buying any product: I willingly pay more for less problems.
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Roar
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by Roar »

Apology accepted. Thank you, I hope everyone can be back at work soon.
YYZSaabGuy wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:23 am
Roar wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:50 pm Because we don't all fly for the airlines, smart guy. I don't fly for the traveling masses looking for the cheapest ticket possible. I have been up until Covid, flying for one family. So spare me your eye rolling.
YYZSaabGuy wrote: Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:28 am Give your head a shake: if the cheap-ass public you enjoy denigrating has no interest in buying tickets or traveling with you, exactly how long do you think your employer can fund its cash burn, own its aircraft or for that matter employ you? Oh, wait...... :roll:
Doh! Dumb comment on my part: my apologies. Eye roll rescinded. And I hope you are able to get back to work soon!
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rookiepilot
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by rookiepilot »

WJ Strikes again! -- kicks off family traveling to hospital --- for other child's heart transplant.

No swat team this time. Team Teal's caped crusaders handled it themselves.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/transp ... -1.5732572

Yeah its pretty ridiculous.

Other countries, its above 6. Or above 11.
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CpnCrunch
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by CpnCrunch »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:08 am WJ Strikes again! -- kicks off family traveling to hospital --- for other child's heart transplant.

No swat team this time. Team Teal's caped crusaders handled it themselves.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/transp ... -1.5732572

Yeah its pretty ridiculous.

Other countries, its above 6. Or above 11.
They kicked them off due to TC guidelines. What else could they have done? If the family had bothered testing the mask on their 2 year old before the flight, none of this would have happened.
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digits_
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by digits_ »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:08 am WJ Strikes again! -- kicks off family traveling to hospital --- for other child's heart transplant.

No swat team this time. Team Teal's caped crusaders handled it themselves.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/transp ... -1.5732572

Yeah its pretty ridiculous.

Other countries, its above 6. Or above 11.
Hey at least they didn't cancel the flight this time, it's progress!

Looks like they didn't do anything wrong in this case, but it's still bad PR, not necessarily caused by Westjet though.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by AuxBatOn »

TC allows airlines to accept unmasked people with special circumstances to not wear masks. Air Canada did for the toddler the same day. It is on WJ.
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rookiepilot
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Re: People just want their money back, forget credits.

Post by rookiepilot »

AuxBatOn wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:36 am TC allows airlines to accept unmasked people with special circumstances to not wear masks. Air Canada did for the toddler the same day. It is on WJ.
Aren't their ads all about how much they "care"?

I'm not amused by the family's situation, but WJ's abominable PR.....
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