Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

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Gilles Hudicourt
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Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

The march is on in Ottawa on Tuesday Oct 20th.

We meet at the LeBreton flats next to the War Museum at 11:30.

The march begins at noon. We march towards Parliament hill.

We should respect social distancing and wear masks.

The theme of the march is "Save Canadian Aviation"

We are asking the Federal Government to rapidly come up with a plan to Save Canadian Aviation from bankruptcy.
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Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
172_Captain
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by 172_Captain »

Sorry but no.

What exactly do you want the government to do? Travel is down due to a global pandemic, this will continue this way for the foreseeable future. No amount of spending or stimulus is going to encourage people to get on a plane. That money would be better spent IMO supporting the people then corporations that privatize gains while socializing the losses.

Why should my tax dollars go towards funding for an airlines that has a CA paying people 75%-100% wages for sitting at home? You really want to save the airlines? Fall on your sword and give up your salary expense and save them the money.

Also, wouldn't advise a march in a COVID hotspot either. Not really the right look if you want to be taken seriously, again IMO. The perception of the airlines industry is that airlines are evil, and the pilots are already overpaid considering the autopilot does everything. Organizing a gathering while the second wave picks up steam isn't really the best approach.
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RRJetPilot
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by RRJetPilot »

I support you Gilles. Keep fighting the good fight. If I was not on the west coast I would be there. And to the last post, there is so much wrong with what the troll wrote, no point acknowledging it. Good luck!
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linecrew
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by linecrew »

RRJetPilot wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:05 am I support you Gilles. Keep fighting the good fight. If I was not on the west coast I would be there. And to the last post, there is so much wrong with what the troll wrote, no point acknowledging it. Good luck!
I would like to see a fair counter to the post though. I can see validity to both sides of this.
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tbaylx
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by tbaylx »

172_Captain wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:45 am Sorry but no.

What exactly do you want the government to do? Travel is down due to a global pandemic, this will continue this way for the foreseeable future. No amount of spending or stimulus is going to encourage people to get on a plane. That money would be better spent IMO supporting the people then corporations that privatize gains while socializing the losses.

Why should my tax dollars go towards funding for an airlines that has a CA paying people 75%-100% wages for sitting at home? You really want to save the airlines? Fall on your sword and give up your salary expense and save them the money.

Also, wouldn't advise a march in a COVID hotspot either. Not really the right look if you want to be taken seriously, again IMO. The perception of the airlines industry is that airlines are evil, and the pilots are already overpaid considering the autopilot does everything. Organizing a gathering while the second wave picks up steam isn't really the best approach.
Sure i'll take a stab at that. The government has imposed lockdowns and quarantines that have hobbled airlines business models. They've been slow to implement rapid testing, safe travel corridors and open up borders. If you're going to hobble the airline industry then you should be providing support for that industry to ensure the industry is still there when you lift all the restrictions you've imposed.

If you believe that automation does everything then you certainly don't have a very good understanding of what a professional airline pilot does and probably shouldn't be commenting on industry support from a position of ignorance on a pilot forum.
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RRJetPilot
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by RRJetPilot »

Exactly. The second someone states "The autopilot does everything," I know this person is completely uneducated, oblivious, has mental retardation (not funny), or is just plain ignorant. No point even acknowledging someone of that mental capacity.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by iflyforpie »

Two retorts and both attributing the opinion to the poster, not the general public as it was written.

Easy mistake to make when you are emotionally charged, but that’s how the world works. It’s based on confidence and fear.

12 months ago, people didn’t care about any of the dozens of communicable diseases they could catch or spread by air travel.

12 months ago, they didn’t care about the fine print on their ticket that said airlines could keep their money almost unilaterally.

Now they know. And they are acting accordingly. And they likely have almost no sympathy for the industry.
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Dh8Classic
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by Dh8Classic »

Our taxes are high enough. Lets let capitalism do its thing and new airlines will rise from the ashes when the time is appropriate. There are already a couple of new ones including a 737 operation in Quebec.

Should we have used taxpayers money for Nortel or Blackberry. It wouldn't have helped. Now Shopify is around as a different hi tech company.

Looks like AC has plenty of ways to get money anyways:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstor ... d=msedgdhp
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pilotguy53
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by pilotguy53 »

172_Captain wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:45 am Sorry but no.

What exactly do you want the government to do? Travel is down due to a global pandemic, this will continue this way for the foreseeable future. No amount of spending or stimulus is going to encourage people to get on a plane. That money would be better spent IMO supporting the people then corporations that privatize gains while socializing the losses.

Why should my tax dollars go towards funding for an airlines that has a CA paying people 75%-100% wages for sitting at home? You really want to save the airlines? Fall on your sword and give up your salary expense and save them the money.

Also, wouldn't advise a march in a COVID hotspot either. Not really the right look if you want to be taken seriously, again IMO. The perception of the airlines industry is that airlines are evil, and the pilots are already overpaid considering the autopilot does everything. Organizing a gathering while the second wave picks up steam isn't really the best approach.
172_Captain has a valid point, I don't see why RRJetPilot has to throw emotional-based spears. Chill dude...

Of course, the root cause needs to be addressed. Yes, the government needs to look at the rapid COVID tests as a means to eliminate the quarantine regulations. But...throwing money at the airlines is not the fix. Look at what has happened in the USA with the bailouts in the Spring. How are they doing now? American Airlines CEO Doug Parker told CBS News that if there isn’t a new bailout program, “there are going to be 100,000 aviation professionals who are out of work, who wouldn’t be otherwise.” This would include the 18,000 employees American Airlines has threatened to lay off.

If using tax payer money is the solution to saving jobs, then there needs to be significant financial strings attached. Sometimes it's hard to be pro-airline when you look at how much money they have incinerated on share buy-backs over the last 10 years.

And reference the autopilot stuff... ahem...
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Cappo1
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by Cappo1 »

172_Captain wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:45 am Sorry but no.

What exactly do you want the government to do? Travel is down due to a global pandemic, this will continue this way for the foreseeable future. No amount of spending or stimulus is going to encourage people to get on a plane. That money would be better spent IMO supporting the people then corporations that privatize gains while socializing the losses.

Why should my tax dollars go towards funding for an airlines that has a CA paying people 75%-100% wages for sitting at home? You really want to save the airlines? Fall on your sword and give up your salary expense and save them the money.

Also, wouldn't advise a march in a COVID hotspot either. Not really the right look if you want to be taken seriously, again IMO. The perception of the airlines industry is that airlines are evil, and the pilots are already overpaid considering the autopilot does everything. Organizing a gathering while the second wave picks up steam isn't really the best approach.

The person who started this whole protest only became concerned when it became doubtful that the deal between AC and his airline would potentially not materialize. Prior to that, he was the first one to hail DOH in a seniority merge, and since then his attitude has changed to the extent he wants all airlines to shut down. So now with the protest he wants borders lifted and fill flights with ghost customers ? Which one is it ? Restaurants and bars and hotels are in arrears here in Canada, hotels on my layovers are empty, Belgium , Italy, Spain, france, the UK and the Netherlands are resuming lockdowns. All this is doing would be to expose more of our beloved crews in red zones as they sit alone in hotel rooms ordering the same curry dish in the new Delhi hotel . Trust me, I've had enough Delhi belly to know.

Pilots are either close to or at their full MBG, on CEWS, or, those unlucky enough to be furloughed can pick up a part time job while the pandemic rages on around the world.

Shouldn't the money be better distributed to help with mortgages, keep their children in college? I have earned my ranks, started with the forces when the comraderie was drilled into us. How are we all supposed to get there? Have busses been chartered, is AT providing hot coffee? Canada is 3000 miles wide and wants everyone to transport in or their dime to support his Ego. Its a lot more proficient with all those conscripted to send a letter.

AC has provided covid testing on arrival in YYZ but passenger numbers haven't budged one bit. Does TS have the resources for this ? Not at 3.75 a share.
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172_Captain
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by 172_Captain »

tbaylx wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:55 am If you believe that automation does everything then you certainly don't have a very good understanding of what a professional airline pilot does and probably shouldn't be commenting on industry support from a position of ignorance on a pilot forum.
Where did I say automation does everything? I simply stated that that is the perception to the general public.
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Ratherbe
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by Ratherbe »

Let’s ask WJ and AC to cancel all flights into YOW next week. Shut ‘er down.
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TheTurdBurglar
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by TheTurdBurglar »

RRJetPilot wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:11 am Exactly. The second someone states "The autopilot does everything," I know this person is completely uneducated, oblivious, has mental retardation (not funny), or is just plain ignorant. No point even acknowledging someone of that mental capacity.

Yes perhaps you are the uneducated, oblivious one here who got an airline job with their high school diploma and a 60% pass rate in the English Language. Perhaps it is your brain that is actually suffering from, what, mental retardation (are you serious here?) and ignorance. Learn to read. 172_Captain was very obviously referring to the public's general opinion of pilots, not their own.

It's best to fully understand what you're reading before making yourself look like a complete fool.
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Last edited by TheTurdBurglar on Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
iflyforpie
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by iflyforpie »

Ratherbe wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:25 pm Let’s ask WJ and AC to cancel all flights into YOW next week. Shut ‘er down.
Sounds like an awesome idea. Screw over your last remaining customers.

Or watch an upstart swoop in, honour the fares, and in a PR bombshell carve out a new market share.

Oh man... what’s next? Improve your pickup artistry by using injuries and insults?
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Geez did I say that....? Or just think it....?
Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by Gilles Hudicourt »

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rookiepilot
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by rookiepilot »

American's CEO has a lot less credibility than 172 captain here.
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montado
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by montado »

Cappo1 wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:03 pm Shouldn't the money be better distributed to help with mortgages, keep their children in college?
Would you call CERB a success? My observation is it seems any social funding you implement it becomes very difficult to take away... people become needy leaches, dependant and not resilient. But you could also argue big corporations also become leaches with bailouts, and some just feed off the taxpayers dime until they fail. Regardless I think people need jobs to go back to, not sure the best way to make that happen.
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jakeandelwood
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by jakeandelwood »

montado wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 7:21 pm
Cappo1 wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:03 pm Shouldn't the money be better distributed to help with mortgages, keep their children in college?
Would you call CERB a success? My observation is it seems any social funding you implement it becomes very difficult to take away... people become needy leaches, dependant and not resilient. But you could also argue big corporations also become leaches with bailouts, and some just feed off the taxpayers dime until they fail. Regardless I think people need jobs to go back to, not sure the best way to make that happen.
excactly, why should i have to work as normal all through this pandemic and have my tax dollars go to pay an over extended and laid off airline pilot's McMansion payments and to pay for his kids college? its not my problem. CERB was a horrible idea, and most people collecting it don't want to go back to work, why is someone losing their job now deserving of more money than a year ago? Don't say jobs are hard to find now, that's B.S., there are jobs everywhere, maybe you have to change careers, even just temporarily, that's life. everyone just wants a friggin handout now for any inconvenience.
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DanWEC
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by DanWEC »

Reading this thread, I'm utterly embarrassed to be a member of this forum.
I joined around 11 years ago. It was really good. With good people (Some are still here.) I had help with good old PSTAR questions, then help on the job hunt. I "met" lifelong friends before I even shook their hands in person. (You know who guys are, especially the gem who gave me Red Bull tickets!) I got my first job through here, and with some hard work everything kept falling into place. Subsequently, I help as many others as I can, especially after my golden Canadian road trip experience, and I try to pay as much forward as possible.

So now to see this toxic egoistic garbage spewed between people who supposedly joined because of a common love... It's sad as hell.
I'm sure I don't know any of the last several posters here in person, because in recent memory I can't remember walking through the terminal and suddenly meeting a random group of raging assholes.
Funny enough, looks like a couple of you don't even fly planes for a living, therefore you are in no position to discuss the business of aviation in Canada.
If you don't want to lend support, fine. But why shit on people that are fighting for our livelyhood?
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sstaurus
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by sstaurus »

It’s not just this forum. The internet as a whole is degenerating into a polarized, angry cesspool of people arguing in their own echo chambers. Social media caters to people’s baser instincts and rational, critical thinking abilities are disappearing...

It also doesn’t help that this forum has become 95% ads and nearly unusable. Perhaps it’s time for someone to create a new avcanada.
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