Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

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twa22
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by twa22 »

TT1900 wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:19 pm
twa22 wrote: Wed Oct 21, 2020 6:54 pm I really think some of you really don't understand what's at stake here...

Also, why the hell should the 777 captain sacrific his salary for the betterment of others? I am a type of person who is willing to do whatever I can for someone to help them out, but to give up my own salary, which I have rightfully earned, is not something that is feasible. It will save what? Maybe 1 pilot? 2 at most? You can argue that if all the top dogs sacrificed their salary, they could save a lot more junior guys... Yea ok, but for how long? And then if they got saved, what would they be doing? Getting paid to sit at home because there's no flying anyways? Come on guys, be realistic about this... Besides, majority have already taken a pay cut at the majors, to the tune of 40%, so what more do you want?
I think most understand whats at stake; non-essential leisure travel. Is it nice to be able to fly to Mexico for $500? Sure. Essential, absolutely not and not worth wasting further billions on. If the current airlines go bust viable sectors will be picked up by new entrants. Will it suck for the current ownership/shareholders? Yep, but its not the governments job to look after shareholders. Critical services, cargo, and corporate/charter are all trucking right along and stand to gain. A solid portion of business travel, what's left of it, will be done by corporate/charter anyways now that many companies are actively doing the cost-benefit comparisons and have experienced the benefits of non-airline travel. Some of us see immense opportunity right now. Flamesuit on, hate away.

Do you not see the irony in saying the 777 Captain shouldn't sacrifice his pay for the betterment of his co-workers, then demanding taxpayers sacrifice even more to maintain the lifestyle of a person who works less than twelve days a month and makes 6-7 times what the average Canadian does? Taxpayer better let that four-bar buy a better boat next year! Yes, they have rightfully earned that pay when the going was good, but now it's not (no surprise, cyclical industry) and they need to come to terms with that.

Do I think the airline industry has been dealt a crappy hand? Yes. Do I think rapid testing in place of 14-day quarantine should be given a solid look? Absolutely. Do I feel bad for colleagues who chose to keep flying and went to an airline? Of course. Do I think the government should turn good money into bad by throwing it at the airlines when every other G7 nation has shown it to be ineffective? No.
It's more then just the airline industry and leisure travel that's at risk here, but anyways, I won't argue further

As for the 777 captain statement I made, sure, it may be a little ironic, but I did state that there have been paycuts too. And if we are talking about taxpayer dollars, there's a lot worse things our tax payer dollars are funding, but this isn't a political forum and i'm not here to talk about tax payer dollars and where it should be going

Bottom line is, we can agree to disagree, and that is fine, we all have our own opinions, but it's easy for those who are not directly impacted by this to say screw the airlines... just as I can say well screw every other industry that got a bailout, why were they more deserving?
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twa22
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by twa22 »

I do want to reiterate that my stance isn't regarding bailouts per say, but this has been the main topic that has been focused on... I guess bailout has been used interchangeably with easing quarantine restrictions also

While I do believe some form of compensation such as a loan in exchange for a government stake in the company is the most reasonable action, I think what truely needs to be addressed more so is the quarantine measures

Just wanted to make it clear so it doesn't seem like I'm asking the gov't to give billions in handouts...
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rookiepilot
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by rookiepilot »

Twa22, your elitism posts remind me of way too many in the United States right now in the airline C-Suite. They are not the first, nor the last.

They all want their profits treated as pure capitalism, untouched, untaxed and unfettered, and when losses occur, they run straight to socialism. But only for them. Forget anyone else lining up for the food banks down there, dealing with homelessness.

United was happy to take US aid. Until it was made clear it came with conditions on executive compensation. Then they said, no thanks. We'll fire people instead. :shock:

Corporate Tax Rates in the US have fallen for the last 20 years. And listen to the screaming that they might go up.

I'm an ex floor trader. There is no one more capitalist that I am here. But the inequality has gone way too far.
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twa22
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by twa22 »

rookiepilot wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 5:52 am Twa22, your elitism posts remind me of way too many in the United States right now in the airline C-Suite. They are not the first, nor the last.

They all want their profits treated as pure capitalism, untouched, untaxed and unfettered, and when losses occur, they run straight to socialism. But only for them. Forget anyone else lining up for the food banks down there, dealing with homelessness.

United was happy to take US aid. Until it was made clear it came with conditions on executive compensation. Then they said, no thanks. We'll fire people instead. :shock:

Corporate Tax Rates in the US have fallen for the last 20 years. And listen to the screaming that they might go up.

I'm an ex floor trader. There is no one more capitalist that I am here. But the inequality has gone way too far.
lol

did you read what I said? I didn't say screw every other industry, what I said was
Bottom line is, we can agree to disagree, and that is fine, we all have our own opinions, but it's easy for those who are not directly impacted by this to say screw the airlines... just as I can say well screw every other industry that got a bailout, why were they more deserving?
"just as I can say" doesn't mean "i'm saying screw every other industry"

I then clearly reiterated my stance where I said that while some form of monetary compensation would help, placing conditions and having a gov't stake in an airline would be a better solution then nothing at all. Would a flat out bailout be nice? Sure it would be. Is it realistic? Nope. Do airlines deserve to be bailed out? I think they deserve to be helped out, so in turn they can help out their employees and their paying passengers, along with indirectly helping others who help keep aviation going but don't directly work for an airline

I clearly said in my previous posts that corporations are some of shadiest out there and that they try to screw their employees and customers whenever they can.

I really don't know what elitism you are reading into... but anyways, no point in talking about this anymore
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TT1900
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by TT1900 »

I think it’s a mistake to equate current airlines failing with the collapse of the airline industry. If Air Canada went totally bust tomorrow others, either already in existence or newly formed, would pick up viable routes. Yes, it would be an uncertain time for employees but nothing that hasn’t been done before. Pilots are of course the most vocal opponents of this as they have the most to lose due to their compensation structure that values time-in vice individual ability. A baggage handler doesn’t care what tail they’re throwing stuff into. An AME doesn’t care what tail they’re fixing. Most support has already been cut loose by airlines and their jobs contracted out to third parties anyways.
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Gino Under
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by Gino Under »

twa22

Actually, I wasn’t thinking about your post specifically. But, I do agree with what you’re saying. We know passenger cabins are extremely safe due to the AC/Press Systems. In fact, there are only 44 confirmed COVID cases among 1 point something million passengers carried worldwide since this pandemic began. I also believe an industry collapse is at hand and the measures you rightfully suggest are unlikely to entice an appreciable return to acceptable passenger loads before it collapses. Will passengers pay for the preflight testing? (I doubt it)
I just wish the world would go after the Chinese government for the industry’s financial losses instead of us leaning on our government for financial support. The Chinese government initially understated and hid this corona virus from the world until it was too late.
All of this is on them.

Cheers,
Gino
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skypirate88
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by skypirate88 »

Gino Under wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:51 am twa22

Actually, I wasn’t thinking about your post specifically. But, I do agree with what you’re saying. We know passenger cabins are extremely safe due to the AC/Press Systems. In fact, there are only 44 confirmed COVID cases among 1 point something million passengers carried worldwide since this pandemic began. I also believe an industry collapse is at hand and the measures you rightfully suggest are unlikely to entice an appreciable return to acceptable passenger loads before it collapses. Will passengers pay for the preflight testing? (I doubt it)
I just wish the world would go after the Chinese government for the industry’s financial losses instead of us leaning on our government for financial support. The Chinese government initially understated and hid this corona virus from the world until it was too late.
All of this is on them.

Cheers,
Gino
1.2 billion, not million. 44 cases in 1.2 BILLION
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digits_
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by digits_ »

Gino Under wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:51 am I just wish the world would go after the Chinese government for the industry’s financial losses instead of us leaning on our government for financial support. The Chinese government initially understated and hid this corona virus from the world until it was too late.
All of this is on them.
What would have happend if the Chinese government called our government and said "heyyy, so we have a virus here that's a bit nasty. We can't get rid of it, we suggest you close down your borders, quarantaine everyone for 2 weeks like we are doing so we can get this under control"?

Absolutely nothing.
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DanWEC
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by DanWEC »

As of today, in Alberta at least, rapid testing is replacing the 14 day quarantine!

All of us who made our voices heard by marching on the Hill on Wed, we actually MADE A DIFFERENCE! Congratulations to everyone!!!!

I'm sure the crabs in a buckets who've posted on here will also reap the rewards in some way. And to that, you're welcome. Enjoy the empty bucket.
:supz:
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by AuxBatOn »

You think the march on Tuesday had an effect for a policy announced today?
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Gino Under
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Re: Save Canadian Aviation March in Ottawa Oct 20th

Post by Gino Under »

China is financially responsible for all this. How each country handles it within their own borders is a separate issue. If China had been honest, forthcoming and responsible in the first place the reality today would be totally different.

Skypirate
Typo. You’re correct. I should have used billion. I’m not used to these crazy numbers. My bad.

Gino, Ret.
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