valleyboy wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:47 am
Instructing is a hot subject for me. I will go out on a limb here and make a bold statement. For the most part,because of experience levels and poor teaching practices the quality of instruction is not as good as it was when most civilian instructors were mustered out military circa 50's and 60's.
I know things have changed but for ab-initio pilot training there has been a movement to have less concentration on stick and rudder skills. Twenty five hours to solo is absurd. Also, back then, all pilots learned in conventional geared aircraft and they certainly are not the fire breathing dragons as perceived today. People were soloing in as little as 5 hours and in a tail dragger at that. Yes, less congestion and no radios required but stick and rudder skills worked on from day one and concentrated on until solo. From then on a combination of solo and dual instruction and a private licence at 35 hours. I know all past history and times change. Just saying ---
Fast forward to today and most instructors are there just to build time and leave. Flight instruction needs to become a viable option as a profession, meaning being well paid enough with benefits that one could make a lifetime career as an instructor.
To do this training and qualifications to become an instructor needs a large upgrading, like an actual licence instead of an endorsement. Instructors also need courses and education on how to instruct in the air and on the ground. Like a teacher's college for pilot/instructors I think these kind of standards are needed to give students the tools to enjoy and fly safely.
We need to get back to actual flying skills for initial learning and add the other in a more efficient manor. It's become the "flight bag" generation.
trey kule wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:17 pm
I would not be to concerned about the real world implications for teaching students.
The objective, at their level is to instil them with a solid grounding in knowledge and flight fundamentals. When they finish up, regardless of the path they choose, if they have the fundamentals, they will easily adapt to any changes.
My experience from dealing with fresh CPLs is that their instructors were so busy trying to give them the airline experience, they kind of forgot to teach then the fundamentals.
Do a great job on teaching to those basic objectives, and you will be doing your students a great service.
Opinion, others may vary
x 2
+3
The problem with "operational knowledge" is that it is often limited in scope, and it takes experience in that operating environment to know how to apply it safely and even more experience to know how to teach it so the student doesn't go and kill themselves stretching that knowledge. I've also seen too many students come into various different operations (703, 704, and 705) and then try and fly a Cessna 172, Navajo, King Air, or Dash-8 like an A320 or B747 because that was what the instructor taught. I've also seen it the other way where the student showed up without a certain level of knowledge that should have been taught because the licence or rating required it, but the instructor didn't teach it because "it's not on the flight test" or "we don't do that type of flying here." Plus, what one commercial operator does another would baulk at because they don't operate in the same operating sphere. So even if you try and obtain operational knowledge, it is still limited and thus a disservice to the student (who could walk away thinking all operators do x, y, and z).
The licences are the foundation under which on-the-job training builds. Someone above mentioned exposure to Special VFR conditions, and I agree. Training towards the licence should include training to the edge of what the licence permits.
What I would do is contact other flight schools and find out what different types of exercises they do with similar aircraft (e.g., minimum radius turns, costal reversal turns, low visibility/cloud circuits, cold weather tenting, hot weather operations) and integrate those into a well-rounded training plan.
Always remember that what is routine and boring for you is possibly at the maximum of what your student can absorb, and anything extra will lead to a negative training experience.
Flightgame wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:46 pm
I am a Flight Instructor trying hard to impart practical knowledge to my students. But sometimes I feel that my lack of real-world flying experience is crippling me. Wondering if there would be any way in which I could do some back seat flying / right seat flying (in a single pilot environment where there is a free right seat ?) so that I can actually understand the reality better.
Seniors, please help.
"practical" knowledge is applied theoretical knowledge. In the context of an FTU there is much to be gained by simply being curious. Ask yourself a lot of "why" questions. Why does the master switch have 2 sides, why is the aileron on the C 172 curved up at the outboard sections. Why is 1.3 Vso the calculated final speed, When is the best time to check the fuel tanks for contamination. The preceding list came form a 20 second stream of consciousness. There are a 1000 things you can ask the why question about and all serve to provide the foundational understanding for "operational" experiences that you experience.
When I was a new instructor at a big flying club all the other instructors bolted for the door as soon as there last student finished or it started raining. I practically lived at the airport. As a result when the AME's found something weird and wonderful I was there to see it and ask questions. When there was a maintenance test flight I was there and when some of the private owners went flying I went along and went to new airports. A few were excellent pilots that taught me some good stuff, most were OK and one was terrifying, but it was all good experience. The opportunities were there for other instructors but none of them took advantage.
Just going someplace new is valuable. I find it sad many instructors with hundreds of hours of instructing have only been to 6 or 7 different airports in their whoel flying carreer.
Good points there will do some brainstorming myself. But again, my brain doesn't churn a lot of practical scenarios.. pushing harder.
As for the 6-7 airports, the only time when I could freely fly was when I was hourbuilding. Now when instructing we are only allowed to go to "approved routes" as per the flight training manual. So yeah..im turning into that 6 airport guy. Lol
Kejidog wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:53 pm
Wow. This thread drifted faster than a few of the first crosswind landings i did. I will speak from my experience only. I did my ppl at a local ftu. I think i went through 4-5 instructors in my 6 months of flying. One was good one was mostly excellent and two were down right awful. I was highly motivated and absorbed as much info from them as i could. I arrived prepared and studied as much as they told me to be ready to fly. I also augmented it by hours of internet reading and podcast type stuff. I still was only as good as what they taught me. Was I safe? Safe enough to fly way with my PPL. Did i feel confident in what I learned? No not really.
The OP has a valid point on what they are trying to accomplish. I wish them well but be careful when flying with other pilots. Some may put their brain in neutral knowing they have a competent instructor in the seat beside them. I did something like that on my trip through the rockies this summer. My preparations were not as thorough as i normally do because i knew the guy beside me was making the decisions. Granted i hired him but i felt after we started on the flight that i was behind the whole way to Calgary. Not having the frequencies and the procedures down solid made me feel not in control as i would have liked. This also taught me a lot as well so there’s that.
Wanting to be better makes for a good teacher. I commend you on this. Now if only i could get my kid’s grade ten math teacher to want to improve her teaching and herself in general it wold be pretty sweet.
"practical" knowledge is applied theoretical knowledge. In the context of an FTU there is much to be gained by simply being curious. Ask yourself a lot of "why" questions. Why does the master switch have 2 sides, why is the aileron on the C 172 curved up at the outboard sections. Why is 1.3 Vso the calculated final speed, When is the best time to check the fuel tanks for contamination. The preceding list came form a 20 second stream of consciousness. There are a 1000 things you can ask the why question about and all serve to provide the foundational understanding for "operational" experiences that you experience.
When I was a new instructor at a big flying club all the other instructors bolted for the door as soon as there last student finished or it started raining. I practically lived at the airport. As a result when the AME's found something weird and wonderful I was there to see it and ask questions. When there was a maintenance test flight I was there and when some of the private owners went flying I went along and went to new airports. A few were excellent pilots that taught me some good stuff, most were OK and one was terrifying, but it was all good experience. The opportunities were there for other instructors but none of them took advantage.
I've lived my whole life with a curious nature and insatiable desire to learn. It's opened amazing opportunities for me. Can't imagine any other way.
Is a more important aspect than new pilots realize. I too, lived at a couple of airports, and would be there rain or shine. So, when something unplanned came up, I would be there. If no one else was there to get involved, I was. It presented me with many interesting opportunities, and I learned.
That said, my learning kicked into a higher gear when I started flying non club airplanes, including one that I bought. Though I will not endorse flying a plane beyond your skill, or its limitations, I did find that the club rules (fair enough, they did own the plane!) still limited me (no grass runways, for example). Once I could fly more to the limitations of my increasing skill, and the plane, rather than conservative club rules, I did broaden my skills. I'm not knocking club rules, I guess they have to cater to the lowest common denominator - their planes, their rules. My plane, I learned more!
Never thought about how important sticking around might be .. wow
Kejidog wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:53 pmWow. This thread drifted faster than a few of the first crosswind landings i did.
Keep in mind the originator of the thread posted once and then disappeared. That's usually the sign of a wind up artist disappointed in the lack of stupid responses.
Haha.. im back !! Browsing through this forum on my phone is a huge pain. Not to mention the Ads.
Kejidog wrote: ↑Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:53 pmWow. This thread drifted faster than a few of the first crosswind landings i did.
Keep in mind the originator of the thread posted once and then disappeared. That's usually the sign of a wind up artist disappointed in the lack of stupid responses.
OR Maybe, unlike the rest of us, he does not have too much free time on his hand to be aimlessly browsing the forum .... pointing to self
Flightgame wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:46 pm
I am a Flight Instructor trying hard to impart practical knowledge to my students. But sometimes I feel that my lack of real-world flying experience is crippling me. Wondering if there would be any way in which I could do some back seat flying / right seat flying (in a single pilot environment where there is a free right seat ?) so that I can actually understand the reality better.
Seniors, please help.
I am not a senior by any means ... though being a dad makes me feel like one lol.
I commend you first of all for thinking this way and from what I gather you want what is best for your students.
Remember, as a flight instructor busting around the pattern we are building the foundations and fundamentals of flying. We must lead by example in pilot decision making, commitment to safety and flight discipline. If you can instill those practises as a flight instructor while teaching you're already doing more for that student than you can imagine...
How one approaches flight instructing can make or break a student - that in itself is a leadership responsibility that you shouldn't take for granted.
Flightgame wrote: ↑Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:46 pm
I am a Flight Instructor trying hard to impart practical knowledge to my students. But sometimes I feel that my lack of real-world flying experience is crippling me. Wondering if there would be any way in which I could do some back seat flying / right seat flying (in a single pilot environment where there is a free right seat ?) so that I can actually understand the reality better.
Seniors, please help.
"
Just going someplace new is valuable. I find it sad many instructors with hundreds of hours of instructing have only been to 6 or 7 different airports in their whoel flying carreer.
Good points there will do some brainstorming myself. But again, my brain doesn't churn a lot of practical scenarios.. pushing harder.
As for the 6-7 airports, the only time when I could freely fly was when I was hourbuilding. Now when instructing we are only allowed to go to "approved routes" as per the flight training manual. So yeah..im turning into that 6 airport guy. Lol
When I flew airlines a lot of what i did was to just 6-7 airports
will do some brainstorming myself. But again, my brain doesn't churn a lot of practical scenarios.. pushing harder. 
