Pfizer Covid Vaccine shows 90% effectiveness.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

Nah I watch/listen/read as many news sources as possible, to hopefully prevent myself from winding up in a thought bubble. All of the ones you listed, in any case. I have always challenged groupthink, and this pandemic is no exception. I have always been a contrarian. I cancel my newspaper subscription and get another one from the opposite end of the political spectrum twice a year or so, I change the dial on my car radio, and I change the news I watch, in a genuine effort to have a balanced view.

To be fair, I'm not in a "self mandated lockdown". I am limiting my social interactions and carefully and methodically evaluating risk - something that has served me well as an IT man in a previous career and something I think will serve me well as a pilot.

Australia is a whole other can of worms - previously one of the most liberal jurisdictions on Earth, but recently one of the most conservative. I have not agreed with most of what they have done recently - but I don't live and I don't vote there, so I will leave Australia to the Australians - as Canada should be left to Canadians.

[Trematode]

Ranting and raving about blue pills and red pills and sheep and the gestapo is not conversation.

It’s a kind of poison injection into the civil discourse of our society.

And there is so much of it. It’s impossible to refute or address it in any meaningful way. Our continued ability to converse is just barely hanging on in the face of these kinds of assaults on rational thinking.

For your sake, I would suggest you take a break from the internet. Your world view has been corrupted by conspiracy theory, paranoia, and propagandized YouTube channels and websites masquerading as news and facts. At some point in your exploration of internet media, you’ve stepped into a dark hole of nonsense.

Talk to your friends on the phone. Go out and get a wide range of opinion from different people you know. Get out of these echo chambers. Maybe try to get to know some actual experts in the field of public health in order to get some real insight in the same way a layman might ask a pilot about aviation related topics.

For god sakes stay away from Facebook, Rebel News, and OANN. This shit is corrupting us all as evidenced by far too many in these threads flailing around frantically at the fringes of logic and reason. Just, chill, for all our sakes.

[valleyboy]

Here is how you get people to wear a mask. An app on their phone that will not let them use their phone unless a mask is on their face -- LMFAAOOoooo

it's a proven fact that the mob mentality is incapable of making a reasonable decision and that only someone making rules for them keeps them from killing more people. Covid has just demonstrated how many crazy selfish people are out there. It's mind blowing. Mr Spock is flabbergasted.

[Trematode]

Shayne,

I see real problems that we as a society are ineffectual at dealing with because there is a huge schism in our informational spheres. The problems aren’t insurmountable, but divisive rhetoric and nut balls like you are only hindering our ability to act rationally as a team.

It’s a breakdown of CRM at the largest scale — and you and your ilk are the equivalent of false indications in the cockpit that can’t be silenced or unseen.

[montado]

Crazy selfish people? So also obese people and smokers can be on your list? How many hospital beds are occupied y the obese or people who decide to smoke or drink? If it wasn't for those making poor choices we would have enough beds to care for everyone with covid.

Covid is still not the number one killer, and guess what is linked to the top causes of death? Yes yes, crazy selfish fat obese, smoking and drinking, hospital bed occupying citizens who are the reason our hospitals are overwhelmed. I am convinced we could save more Canadian lives by eliminating fast food. Yet our government has made choices where big chain fast food thrives and gyms close. Yes because this is what's important for the health of a nation.

All I can picture is fat obese people tossing McDonald's Fry's in their mouth slamming the keyboard calling anyone who questions a government policy selfish and tell them they are the reason hospitals are overwhelmed. Take a good look at what your actions do for our health system. We should all start shaming everyone who's a burden on our health system... Shake the anti maskers, shame the fat, shame the smokers right? Anyone who makes a choice that puts them in the hospital during a pandemic should be shames for being selfish.

[dialdriver]

Crazy selfish people? So also obese people and smokers can be on your list? How many hospital beds are occupied y the obese or people who decide to smoke or drink? If it wasn't for those making poor choices we would have enough beds to care for everyone with covid.

Covid is still not the number one killer, and guess what is linked to the top causes of death? Yes yes, crazy selfish fat obese, smoking and drinking, hospital bed occupying citizens who are the reason our hospitals are overwhelmed. I am convinced we could save more Canadian lives by eliminating fast food. Yet our government has made choices where big chain fast food thrives and gyms close. Yes because this is what's important for the health of a nation.

All I can picture is fat obese people tossing McDonald's Fry's in their mouth slamming the keyboard calling anyone who questions a government policy selfish and tell them they are the reason hospitals are overwhelmed. Take a good look at what your actions do for our health system. We should all start shaming everyone who's a burden on our health system... Shake the anti maskers, shame the fat, shame the smokers right? Anyone who makes a choice that puts them in the hospital during a pandemic should be shames for being selfish.

Mmmmm......McDonald's Fries....mmmm yummy!

[Rockie]

Crazy selfish people? So also obese people and smokers can be on your list?

Second hand smoke is a health risk to other people, so yes. Obesity is not contagious, but maybe OANN has a different opinion and therefore so do you.

Covid is still not the number one killer,

It is now in the US.

Seriously, you’re not even a little embarrassed living in an alternate fact free reality? You have a responsible job, how do you get away with it?

[montado]

Crazy selfish people? So also obese people and smokers can be on your list?

Second hand smoke is a health risk to other people, so yes. Obesity is not contagious, but maybe OANN has a different opinion and therefore so do you.

Covid is still not the number one killer,

It is now in the US.

Seriously, you’re not even a little embarrassed living in an alternate fact free reality? You have a responsible job, how do you get away with it?

https://www.cancer.org/research/cancer- ... -2019.html

I’m embarrassed because you blatantly lie?

Cancer deaths 600k per year, covid deaths will probably reach 300k after a year...

And remember a death with covid is a death from covid! That like saying everyone’s death was due to sunshine, because everyone had some sun rays hit them this month... a death with sun exposure is a death from sun exposure... see how facts work! Every death was because of the sun.

[montado]

https://globalnews.ca/video/7502145/pov ... ciety-less

This gave me a chuckle. Doctors are now economists. They have become so comfortable in making decisions for the politicians they are now dabbling in non covid issues. Trust the experts everyone. Pretty soon doctors and public health will call emergency orders for everything!

trust the experts!

[montado]

Rockie, mixturerich, what are your thoughts on this new policy?

“Parents must now keep their child home from school and seek a COVID-19 test if they’re showing even one new symptom in common with COVID-19, officials in Peel and Toronto say, breaking with provincial guidance that said kids with runny noses or headaches could return to school when symptoms improved. Under the new guidance which takes effect on Dec. 7, parents must keep any child home if they are showing new or worsening symptoms including a runny nose, headache, nausea or sore throat, and also must keep home any siblings that live with them, even if they are not showing symptoms.”

https://www.cp24.com/news/keep-children ... -1.5217356

What is the science behind this approach? How much disruption should we cause parents over a runny nose? How would you explain this to your kids that they have to stay home for a runny nose? Should the employer of the parents now have to give paid sick days if the parent has to stay home? And most importantly maybe, how many cases of covid will be prevented with this policy to justify it being appropriate?

Let’s remember that Doug ford told restaurants and gyms early in the fall if they close for a month we can get this under control, and then maybe they would be able to reopen. Then in that time case exploded as if it had zero affect selectively closing some business. So what do you anticipate with this policy? In a month will cases flatten?

[Inverted2]

Pretty much any child will have a runny nose in the morning if they walk to school in the cold. At least that silliness is confined to Moronto only for now.

[montado]

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/cov ... 6e09274b15

Pretty freaking incredible. Looks like we could have over 100k Canadians vaccinated before years end. I think everyone may have some thoughts or hesitation just because of how quick this happened but even if only half of Canada wants to take the shot that would probably have a huge impact on the ability to get back to normal. Back to normal maybe fall 2021?

Let’s hope the feds and provinces are ready to stab us with a plan to deliver the vaccine.

[mmm..bacon]

I'm neither an anti-vaxxer, nor a covid-denier, but I'm going to take my chances (unless work 'forces' me to do so...) with not getting the vaccine for a few months yet. The whole 'not buying the 'A' model of anything' dictum comes to mind. I'd like to see a few 100,000 people get it first without adverse effects.

[altiplano]

I'm neither an anti-vaxxer, nor a covid-denier, but I'm going to take my chances (unless work 'forces' me to do so...) with not getting the vaccine for a few months yet. The whole 'not buying the 'A' model of anything' dictum comes to mind. I'd like to see a few 100,000 people get it first without adverse effects.

It's not just you...

The FAA position is that taking the vaccine before clinical trials are officially over and vaccine fully FDA approved (not emergency approval), or its own additional evaluations have been completed, will invalidate pilot medicals:
"the agency has made no final decisions, we are prepared to evaluate the use of each vaccine by medical certificate holders as soon as an emergency-use authorization is issued.”

TC saying similar:
the director of Civil Aviation Medicine stated that participation in medical trials isn’t considered compatible with aviation medical certification.”

ALPA saying same:
“… since no trial COVID-19 vaccine has full FDA approval, the FAA considers participation in COVID-19 vaccine trials medically disqualifying for pilots for an indefinite period,” ALPA said.

I wouldn't be in a hurry to do anything.

[Blowin' In The Wind]

I'm neither an anti-vaxxer, nor a covid-denier, but I'm going to take my chances (unless work 'forces' me to do so...) with not getting the vaccine for a few months yet. The whole 'not buying the 'A' model of anything' dictum comes to mind. I'd like to see a few 100,000 people get it first without adverse effects.

It's not just you...

The FAA position is that taking the vaccine before clinical trials are officially over and vaccine fully FDA approved (not emergency approval), or its own additional evaluations have been completed, will invalidate pilot medicals:
"the agency has made no final decisions, we are prepared to evaluate the use of each vaccine by medical certificate holders as soon as an emergency-use authorization is issued.”

TC saying similar:
the director of Civil Aviation Medicine stated that participation in medical trials isn’t considered compatible with aviation medical certification.”

ALPA saying same:
“… since no trial COVID-19 vaccine has full FDA approval, the FAA considers participation in COVID-19 vaccine trials medically disqualifying for pilots for an indefinite period,” ALPA said.

I wouldn't be in a hurry to do anything.

Just to be clear they are specifically referencing before completion of clinical trials and before full FDA approval. Any of us regular folk are A) unlikely to be part of a clinical trial while holding a class 1 medical unless you have trouble with rational decision-making, and B) will not be first in line to be vaccinated under any emergency approval through Health Canada.

So the question becomes: how many people do you need to see vaccinated before you can accept the "risk" - and do the tens-of-thousands of closely watched participants in any of the multiple phase-III trials being completed not count?

[TG]

.

[Inverted2]

They’re giving it out to the natives and elderly first. Joe average pilot will be way down the line to get it. Plus unproven vaccines would medically disqualify you.

Also it hasn’t been tested on all groups such as children or expecting women yet so there’s a lot of unknowns. I’m open to the idea once it’s proven but for now I’ll pass. Just don’t watch the movie “I Am Legend”. It was on TV the other day.

[altiplano]

Just to be clear they are specifically referencing before completion of clinical trials and before full FDA approval. Any of us regular folk are A) unlikely to be part of a clinical trial while holding a class 1 medical unless you have trouble with rational decision-making, and B) will not be first in line to be vaccinated under any emergency approval through Health Canada.

Emergency use approval is not full approval. You don't have to be in a trial to get although it's still in clinical trial phase and not yet approved, FAA/TC consider it the same and your medical will be disqualified based on their current policy or pending their own additional evaluations.

[Rockie]

[quote="Blowin' In The Wind" post_id=<a href="tel:1136274">1136274</a> time=<a href="tel:1607376725">1607376725</a> user_id=47495]

Just to be clear they are specifically referencing before completion of clinical trials and before full FDA approval. Any of us regular folk are A) unlikely to be part of a clinical trial while holding a class 1 medical unless you have trouble with rational decision-making, and B) will not be first in line to be vaccinated under any emergency approval through Health Canada.

Emergency use approval is not full approval. You don't have to be in a trial to get although it's still in clinical trial phase and not yet approved, FAA/TC consider it the same and your medical will be disqualified based on their current policy or pending their own additional evaluations.
[/quote]

It goes without saying (or it should) do not take medical advice from some guy on the internet. Consult your doctor if you have health concerns, and Transport Canada directly regarding any impact the vaccine may have on your license. Your employer will likely have something to say also since they have no interest in losing their entire pilot work force because of this.

[altiplano]

That is what the FAA and TC have said, and ALPA has affirmed according to recent statements.

Even with emergency approval, t's still in clinical trials and even if you're not in the trial per se, it's not compatible with your medical. That may change, but that's the way it is until further notice, by all means call your doctor or Transport and ask before you get jabbed.