Carbon tax announced December 2020

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Fanblade
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Fanblade »

Charts for Federal, Provincial and civic levels of government collecting tax on gas. It is worth billions in revenue. Only some of that revenue is used for roads. Vancouver, Victoria and Montreal have started adding their own fuel tax for infrastructure as a result. :rolleyes: If gas tax revenue falls it will be replaced.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_f ... _in_Canada

Roads are a provincial jurisdiction. It’s all over the map how they deal with the fuel tax revenue. For most provinces the money goes to general revenue. But not all.

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/infrastruc ... canada.php

The Federal government takes the lions share of the taxes on fuel. According to the article about 5 Billion a year and they are not responsible for roads. They do however kick back about 40% of the revenue to Provinces. Nice of them.

Death and taxes. They are the only absolutes. Whenever change has taken place there is always someone trying to cash in to their advantage. Politicians are always first in line. I mean really, what can be better for a politician than a tax they can attach a moral imperative to. Opposers are science deniers, planet haters, idiots. (add any other derogatory descriptive word of you choosing)

In this case it looks like the plan is high Carbon taxes. As people move to EV they will introduce road taxes to replace the lost revenue. People who don’t switch to EV get to pay both. Think of the $$$$$$$ that won’t go to building and maintaining roads.

For most Canadians the EV technology isn’t there yet for cold weather. My next car will be a hybrid as a result. I will get the privilege of paying both taxes.

Clean water, clean air and government makes sure they cash in on the change.

It’s all good. Life is much better if you don’t pay attention to the hand in your wallet.
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Fanblade
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Fanblade »

Another example of a tax grab during a change with a moral imperative. After 911 an ATSC security fee was introduced to pay for enhanced airport screening.

“While it was notionally intended to fund the operation of the new security screening body, between 2010 and 2016, the ATSC has generated a windfall for the Government of Canada of $547.5 million1.”

https://airlinecouncil.ca/wp-content/up ... -Final.pdf

Another example of change and a tax grab. You know all those AIF’s? Government has its hand in there as well in the form of airport rent that goes to, you guessed it, general revenue.

“It is entirely avoidable because Ottawa is, in reality, actually charging itself this expense, because it owns those twenty-six airports. As YVR is the proximate subject of the day, the relevant cost in fiscal and calendar 2018 was $59,530,000, or 15.5% of all non-finance (interest, mostly) expenses and just slightly below the total tab for all salaries and benefits. It is like the owner of a small business paying himself high dividends that he or she cannot really afford, raising his or her costs, making it hard to keep afloat.”

https://fcpp.org/2019/10/10/airport-imp ... ent-costs/

AIF. A chunk of it like paying rent on a house you already own.
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oldncold
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by oldncold »

carbon tax will drive inflation the cost of all goods n services will cast a long shadow on your household budget! by 2030 it will cost the modest family income 4200 net per year the federal government needs the revenue because it is literally broke financially !the debt of 1 trillion needs to be paid in tomorrow's inflated dollars. so effectively less expensive in the effect on the federal budget. this has got nothing to do with the environment govt is broke. Plain n simple. and is breaking you too. that money that could beused for investing inyo futureor
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ayseven
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by ayseven »

The government is not broke. The government raises taxes because it wants to show us how responsible it is. It in no way needs to raise taxes. It is just another line of bs. The cons are even worse. They don't even raise taxes because they think people already believe them fiscally responsible, which they are not. All this stimulus money comes right back to the government in consumption taxes. Just give it time.
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Kejidog
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Kejidog »

There are cities in china that pollute more than we do as a whole country. Canada is responsible for 10% of global emissions. This is a tax grab to fund blackies little vanity projects. Nothing more
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altiplano
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by altiplano »

10%?

I think you mean 1%...

Compare that to China's 30%.
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Zaibatsu
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Zaibatsu »

It’s only 1% because we sweep it all under the table. We pass it on to other countries.

We don’t count the oil and coal and natural gas we export because we don’t burn it here. We don’t count the steel and aluminum we import because we didn’t smelt it here.

China is so dirty because it makes half the worlds steel and almost none of it is for the domestic market.

If you look at carbon footprint by end user and per capita, Canada is probably the dirtiest country in the world.
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photofly
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by photofly »

Zaibatsu wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:06 am
China is so dirty because it makes half the worlds steel and almost none of it is for the domestic market.
That does not appear to be true.

Looking around the internet, I see Chinese domestic iron and steel production 2019 was about 1000 million metric tonnes, and exports were 87 million metric tonnes, so about 9% was for export, and 91% for the domestic market.
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Kejidog
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Kejidog »

altiplano wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:38 am 10%?

I think you mean 1%...

Compare that to China's 30%.
Sorry. I did mean 1%. Which is about ten points higher than junior blackface’s IQ.
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Kejidog
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Kejidog »

Zaibatsu wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:06 am It’s only 1% because we sweep it all under the table. We pass it on to other countries.

We don’t count the oil and coal and natural gas we export because we don’t burn it here. We don’t count the steel and aluminum we import because we didn’t smelt it here.

China is so dirty because it makes half the worlds steel and almost none of it is for the domestic market.

If you look at carbon footprint by end user and per capita, Canada is probably the dirtiest country in the world.

Bullshit!
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Tiberius
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Tiberius »

I have a background in planning, so I’m no stranger to dealing with and navigating policy. The problem with the carbon tax is that there is no way you could quantitatively assess it’s success or failure. And this is why certain politicians love it, because politicians generally hate scrutiny, unlike pilots who are constantly scrutinized.

This and other “green” initiatives are just backdoor socialism and another avenue for bigger government bureaucracy and greater opportunities for racketeering by politicians. And I hate to say it, but the reason is that our population is generally getting stupider. You can talk all day about socialism, Marxism etc., and all they’ll hear are the words “free” or “subsidized” and think what it means for them and their immediate low income situation.

I remember when they were talking about increasing minimum wage a few years ago. A guy on the news with 3 kids working at MacDonald's said and I quote “You can’t raise a family on minimum wage”. And I’m thinking to myself, stupid you’re not supposed to raise a family on minimum wage. This and dozens of people I’ve come across who were clearly able-bodied but on disability; lazy people are the primary voting block in Canada.


My parents came from a country that was a British Colony that went independent. When the Brits left, the stupid people took over and the country took a hard turn towards socialism. They now tell me that they see the same things happening again here in Canada. My advice is to keep your passports in order and be ready to GTFO. Because the last vote you may make, that might actually count, is the one you make with your feet.
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digits_
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by digits_ »

Tiberius wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:44 am I remember when they were talking about increasing minimum wage a few years ago. A guy on the news with 3 kids working at MacDonald's said and I quote “You can’t raise a family on minimum wage”. And I’m thinking to myself, stupid you’re not supposed to raise a family on minimum wage. This and dozens of people I’ve come across who were clearly able-bodied but on disability; lazy people are the primary voting block in Canada.
1) The guy in the interview was working, so I wouldn't call him lazy. Being poor and working a minimum wage is not the same as someone allegedly abusing disability.
2) If you are working a full time job, why shouldn't you be able to raise a family? Would you support a policy in which only the rich are allowed to have kids?
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Tiberius
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Tiberius »

digits_ wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:59 am
Tiberius wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:44 am
[/b]
1) The guy in the interview was working, so I wouldn't call him lazy. Being poor and working a minimum wage is not the same as someone allegedly abusing disability.
2) If you are working a full time job, why shouldn't you be able to raise a family? Would you support a policy in which only the rich are allowed to have kids?
1. Agreed, not lazy. The people on disability do not work, which is why they are on disability. I have no problem paying disability for someone who is legitimately disabled, but there are people who are not and claim it anyway.

2. I think minimum wage should be renamed to "bachelor wage". Having kids that you clearly can't afford puts someone under a lot of financial pressure. 100% of your income gets eaten up by your expenses if you are on minimum wage with 3 kids, meaning you have little to nothing left over to invest in and/or improve yourself or earning potential. That's why poor people stay poor. It's not because they don't make enough it's because they make stupid decisions. They then complain and seek assistance from elsewhere, meaning that productive people (what you'd probably call "rich people") who didn't make dumb decisions will then end up having to subsidize them.
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Last edited by Tiberius on Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:14 am, edited 2 times in total.
dhc#
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by dhc# »

Sums it up.
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digits_
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by digits_ »

Tiberius wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:13 am I think minimum wage should be renamed to "bachelor wage". Having kids that you clearly can't afford puts someone under a lot of financial pressure. 100% of your income gets eaten up by your expenses if you are on minimum wage with 3 kids, meaning you have little to nothing left over to invest in and/or improve yourself or earning potential. That's why poor people stay poor. It's not because they don't make enough it's because they make stupid decisions. They then complain and seek assistance from elsewhere, meaning that productive people (what you'd probably call "rich people") who didn't make dumb decisions will then end up having to subsidize them.
Which is it: are they not making enough, or are they making enough and being stupid?

Do you think people working minimum wage jobs do so by choice? Do you think they would stay working at Tim Hortons for example if there was a viable alternative?
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Tiberius
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Tiberius »

digits_ wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:22 am
Tiberius wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:13 am
Which is it: are they not making enough, or are they making enough and being stupid?

Do you think people working minimum wage jobs do so by choice? Do you think they would stay working at Tim Hortons for example if there was a viable alternative?
It's both. They're not making enough to pay for the stupid decisions they made.

I think the people who do minimum wage jobs fall into 2 groups. There are the smart ones who are doing it temporarily. Perhaps they're in school, or perhaps they are saving up. Either way, it's only a stepping stone into bigger and better things to come later. Then there are the dumb people who think it Tim Hortens is a career. Those are the ones who who will ask for the handout once that first kid arrives.

There are viable alternatives to Tim Hortens, but I've often found that a lot of people don't want those sort of jobs.
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gtappl
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by gtappl »

Tiberius wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:13 am
digits_ wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:59 am
Tiberius wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 10:44 am
[/b]
1) The guy in the interview was working, so I wouldn't call him lazy. Being poor and working a minimum wage is not the same as someone allegedly abusing disability.
2) If you are working a full time job, why shouldn't you be able to raise a family? Would you support a policy in which only the rich are allowed to have kids?
1. Agreed, not lazy. The people on disability do not work, which is why they are on disability. I have no problem paying disability for someone who is legitimately disabled, but there are people who are not and claim it anyway.

2. I think minimum wage should be renamed to "bachelor wage". Having kids that you clearly can't afford puts someone under a lot of financial pressure. 100% of your income gets eaten up by your expenses if you are on minimum wage with 3 kids, meaning you have little to nothing left over to invest in and/or improve yourself or earning potential. That's why poor people stay poor. It's not because they don't make enough it's because they make stupid decisions. They then complain and seek assistance from elsewhere, meaning that productive people (what you'd probably call "rich people") who didn't make dumb decisions will then end up having to subsidize them.
Why do YOU get to decide who is disabled enough? From what I've heard every ODSP claim is first rejected, and you have to appeal.

I know a guy whose wife died of Cancer, he had to end up taking a minimum wage job because that's the only one that was flexible enough for him to take care of his 2 kids, I don't doubt there are people who fucked up but a lot of people on minimum wage are victims of circumstance.
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digits_
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by digits_ »

I think a lot if people are a lot closer to minimum wage jobs or welfare than they would like (me included). All it takes is one unlucky accident that might even be completely out of your control, that would make you lose your medical, or disable you or one of your close family members. It won't take long to ruin you or alter your circumstances such that a min wage job might be your only option. I would want any full time job to pay enough to survive. And yes, some empathy for people who are in such a situation.

If we go even darker, what would happen if you crash a plane with 10 kids on board, or even worse, make an emergency landing in a daycare center, working for a crappy operator? Trial by media... Look how they reacted to an accident with a bus and a truck, now replace the bus by a Dirty Airplane...
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by Mostly Harmless »

Taxation: Some tax needs to be paid to create the civilization we live in. Roads, lights, water, etc. Take too much tax and the system collapses. By the way, taxes are for public goods and services, not for punishing people.

It's a balancing act. The more tax you take from me, the less I can save for retirement and the less I can spend to stimulate the economy and create jobs which makes me more reliant on the government to survive. The more I have to rely on the government, the more money the government needs in order to support me and everyone else and that means they have to apply more taxes. The more taxes they apply, the less I can save for retirement and the less I can spend to stimulate the economy and create jobs which makes me more reliant on the government to survive. The more I have to rely on the government, the more money the government needs in order to support me and that means they have to apply more taxes.

It's the economic equivalent of a spiral dive that results in the entire country going into the ground. Those with money will use it to parachute out to the safety of another country and those without money are going to ride it all the way down. You can't redistribute wealth evenly because it just doesn't work and history has shown that multiple times over. The trick is to find a balance where we look after the vulnerable while allowing people to become self sufficient through the growth of wealth.
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Re: Carbon tax announced December 2020

Post by AngelsSang »

Inverted2 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:00 pm
rookiepilot wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:42 pm I'm in no way a Trudeau fan, but he's right on this issue.
Right on what? Making it unaffordable for people to drive or heat their homes? Or bring in hundreds of thousands more immigrants a year which leads to more cars and pollution? It’s just a tax grab, not going to change anything except drain the wallets of taxpayers when many are barely making it.

If you’re employed in the aviation industry you should be dead agains Trudopes carbon taxes.

This is a great post!
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