Foreign Airlines take CEWS

[Gino Under]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/pol ... e-subsidy/

[200hr Wonder]

It is not as insidious as the headline makes out. These airlines all have Canadian workers, who were laid off, so they applied for CEWS to pay there laid off workers. Be they station chiefs, supervisors etc. Most of these airlines use contract workers for things like baggage handling and customer service agent functions. "Foreign Airlines taking CEWS to pay laid off Canadian Employees" would far more accurate.

Don't get me wrong the federal government is screwing Canadian Airlines and leaving them high and dry, but a company getting a government assistance program for there Canadian workers is the right thing for them to do as a company.

[Yycjetdriver]

It is not as insidious as the headline makes out. These airlines all have Canadian workers, who were laid off, so they applied for CEWS to pay there laid off workers. Be they station chiefs, supervisors etc. Most of these airlines use contract workers for things like baggage handling and customer service agent functions. "Foreign Airlines taking CEWS to pay laid off Canadian Employees" would far more accurate.

Don't get me wrong the federal government is screwing Canadian Airlines and leaving them high and dry, but a company getting a government assistance program for there Canadian workers is the right thing for them to do as a company.

+1

[Flightgame]

I dont understand.. Indigo Airlines doesn't have any presence in Canada. They don't even fly to Canada. Some other loophole perhaps ?

[Localizer]

I'm sorry, but these airlines are still in operation, at least in YYZ. It's not right or fair that they take advantage of a plan that helps their bottom line after a government bailout in their home country. It's just as outrageous as giving the vaccine to federal inmates before every other law abiding citizen.

There is nothing "OK" with any of this ...

[gtappl]

I'm sorry, but these airlines are still in operation, at least in YYZ. It's not right or fair that they take advantage of a plan that helps their bottom line after a government bailout in their home country. It's just as outrageous as giving the vaccine to federal inmates before every other law abiding citizen.

There is nothing "OK" with any of this ...

I don't get the problem with vaccinating inmates? Do you want to infect the guards? Imagine the shit show if you have to send all the inmates to hospital from a breakout?

[jpilot77]

I don’t think people are that pissed off about inmates getting vaccinated. They’re pissed off because the vaccination effort in general has been a total gong show but inmates are getting vaccinated in timely manner. All the levels of government involved had months to prepare for this and didn’t do an adequate job.

[pelmet]

I don’t think people are that pissed off about inmates getting vaccinated. They’re pissed off because the vaccination effort in general has been a total gong show but inmates are getting vaccinated in timely manner. All the levels of government involved had months to prepare for this and didn’t do an adequate job.

Some people might be pissed off if their loved one dies due to waiting for a vaccination while a elderly child molestor got the vaccine first. That would include just about everybody reading this thread, if it happened to them.

[jpilot77]

I don’t think people are that pissed off about inmates getting vaccinated. They’re pissed off because the vaccination effort in general has been a total gong show but inmates are getting vaccinated in timely manner. All the levels of government involved had months to prepare for this and didn’t do an adequate job.

Some people might be pissed off if their loved one dies due to waiting for a vaccination while a elderly child molestor got the vaccine first. That would include just about everybody reading this thread, if it happened to them.

Which is what I was basically saying, if every medium to high risk person in Canada was vaccinated I don’t think there’d be much stink in some prisoners getting it. But because the rollout hasn’t been very good it’s a glaring sore spot.

[200hr Wonder]

I'm sorry, but these airlines are still in operation, at least in YYZ. It's not right or fair that they take advantage of a plan that helps their bottom line after a government bailout in their home country. It's just as outrageous as giving the vaccine to federal inmates before every other law abiding citizen.

There is nothing "OK" with any of this ...

Yes but Localizer, they have been affected. I have a friend who is a CSA with Alaska. She was laid off when there was a severe reduction in flights. Why should Alaska not be able to take advantage of CEWS to keep her on payroll? Sure they are still operating, but her job was furloughed. This is exactly what the program is designed for. Or is just the nation that the airlines are from that is the issue?

[Cessna 180]

As much as I'm not a fan of corporate welfare, nearly 100% of this money would have been spent on EI. This is literally "EI" administered by the employee's company vs the federal government. It's a crying shame the Liberals are using this as an excuse for an "aid package." Sure for a few months, the remuneration was marginally higher than EI maximums, but those salaries accrued more taxes than would have normally been deducted off an EI cheque.

I could personally care less that "foreign" employers are collecting this subsidy on behalf of their employees. Most of these corporations are Canadian subsidiaries wholly owned by their foreign parent corporation anyway, much like thousands of other companies in this country. The only issue is "Air China" and "Alaska Airlines" have the name of where they're from in the title.

If the federal government wasn't so hell-bent on destroying this industry (it's pretty evident at this point), there would be less need for financial support in the first place. Air travel, while still slow, is rebounding in many parts of the world. I don't think it's a conspiracy to believe that there's an agenda playing out here.

Look how good of a job the federal and many provincial governments have done chastising the air travel industry for causing this coronavirus mess. Data shows that only a small, even negligible, number of coronavirus cases come from air travel. Yet, the media and the various legislatures make it seem like 99% of cases come from the airport. I have friends who won't come within a square mile of a pilot because they've been out of the country because of work, yet have no issue visiting a friend who's a nurse and spent 12 hours in a hospital.

Data shows that very few (less than 1%) of travelers through the Alberta Pilot Program test positive. On top of that, everyone is quarantining until they receive a negative test. I think only 1 person has tested positive after the initial test. She also didn't follow the guidance and "quarantined" in a house full of people that pranced around the province after. Travelers in other ports of entry are supposed to be quarantined for 14 days, so no risk.

Trudeau has no interest in anyone flying except him and his Challenger Jet. Doug Ford is deflecting the mess he's made in LTC homes by blaming the flying boogieman. I guess in Doug Ford's province small business has paid the price too.

[photofly]

Look how good of a job the federal and many provincial governments have done chastising the air travel industry for causing this coronavirus mess.

Every single Coronavirus case in this country is here due to air travel. Every single f*ing one of them. Viruses don't swim, walk, or fly. How the hell else did it get here?

[altiplano]

It got here because it was racist to close the border and block flights from China.

[Canoehead]

As much as I'm not a fan of corporate welfare, nearly 100% of this money would have been spent on EI. This is literally "EI" administered by the employee's company vs the federal government. It's a crying shame the Liberals are using this as an excuse for an "aid package." Sure for a few months, the remuneration was marginally higher than EI maximums, but those salaries accrued more taxes than would have normally been deducted off an EI cheque.

I could personally care less that "foreign" employers are collecting this subsidy on behalf of their employees. Most of these corporations are Canadian subsidiaries wholly owned by their foreign parent corporation anyway, much like thousands of other companies in this country. The only issue is "Air China" and "Alaska Airlines" have the name of where they're from in the title.

If the federal government wasn't so hell-bent on destroying this industry (it's pretty evident at this point), there would be less need for financial support in the first place. Air travel, while still slow, is rebounding in many parts of the world. I don't think it's a conspiracy to believe that there's an agenda playing out here.

Look how good of a job the federal and many provincial governments have done chastising the air travel industry for causing this coronavirus mess. Data shows that only a small, even negligible, number of coronavirus cases come from air travel. Yet, the media and the various legislatures make it seem like 99% of cases come from the airport. I have friends who won't come within a square mile of a pilot because they've been out of the country because of work, yet have no issue visiting a friend who's a nurse and spent 12 hours in a hospital.

Data shows that very few (less than 1%) of travelers through the Alberta Pilot Program test positive. On top of that, everyone is quarantining until they receive a negative test. I think only 1 person has tested positive after the initial test. She also didn't follow the guidance and "quarantined" in a house full of people that pranced around the province after. Travelers in other ports of entry are supposed to be quarantined for 14 days, so no risk.

Trudeau has no interest in anyone flying except him and his Challenger Jet. Doug Ford is deflecting the mess he's made in LTC homes by blaming the flying boogieman. I guess in Doug Ford's province small business has paid the price too.

This. 100%.

[Localizer]

I'm sorry, but these airlines are still in operation, at least in YYZ. It's not right or fair that they take advantage of a plan that helps their bottom line after a government bailout in their home country. It's just as outrageous as giving the vaccine to federal inmates before every other law abiding citizen.

There is nothing "OK" with any of this ...

I don't get the problem with vaccinating inmates? Do you want to infect the guards? Imagine the shit show if you have to send all the inmates to hospital from a breakout?

Go ahead and vaccinate the guards .. I don't think you'll hear anyone complain. Prisoners seem to have more rights than the general public these days .. so ass backwards, but we shouldn't be shocked .. everything is ass backwards in Trudeau's Canada. (my opinion)

I'm sorry, but these airlines are still in operation, at least in YYZ. It's not right or fair that they take advantage of a plan that helps their bottom line after a government bailout in their home country. It's just as outrageous as giving the vaccine to federal inmates before every other law abiding citizen.

There is nothing "OK" with any of this ...

Yes but Localizer, they have been affected. I have a friend who is a CSA with Alaska. She was laid off when there was a severe reduction in flights. Why should Alaska not be able to take advantage of CEWS to keep her on payroll? Sure they are still operating, but her job was furloughed. This is exactly what the program is designed for. Or is just the nation that the airlines are from that is the issue?

Your friend would have have been able to utilize the CERB program, so Canadian workers would have been covered either way. My issue with Alaska Airlines (your example) is that they've received (2) U.S bailout packages and now they're getting a subsidized Canadian workforce, courtesy of the Canadian tax payer, with the CEWS program, that's not fair to Canadian carriers who will be at a huge disadvantage when this is over .. if its ever over. I'm not saying that's Alaska or any other carriers fault or problem, nor do I blame them for taking advantage of our inept government. I'm frustrated with our government and its lack of leadership and ability to get organized. They can fire cash out the door in record time .. but there is more vaccine in the freezer than the arms of Canadians.

[McKinley]

I'm sorry, but these airlines are still in operation, at least in YYZ. It's not right or fair that they take advantage of a plan that helps their bottom line after a government bailout in their home country. It's just as outrageous as giving the vaccine to federal inmates before every other law abiding citizen.

There is nothing "OK" with any of this ...

I don't get the problem with vaccinating inmates? Do you want to infect the guards? Imagine the shit show if you have to send all the inmates to hospital from a breakout?

Go ahead and vaccinate the guards .. I don't think you'll hear anyone complain. Prisoners seem to have more rights than the general public these days .. so ass backwards, but we shouldn't be shocked .. everything is ass backwards in Trudeau's Canada. (my opinion)

I'm sorry, but these airlines are still in operation, at least in YYZ. It's not right or fair that they take advantage of a plan that helps their bottom line after a government bailout in their home country. It's just as outrageous as giving the vaccine to federal inmates before every other law abiding citizen.

There is nothing "OK" with any of this ...

Yes but Localizer, they have been affected. I have a friend who is a CSA with Alaska. She was laid off when there was a severe reduction in flights. Why should Alaska not be able to take advantage of CEWS to keep her on payroll? Sure they are still operating, but her job was furloughed. This is exactly what the program is designed for. Or is just the nation that the airlines are from that is the issue?

Your friend would have have been able to utilize the CERB program, so Canadian workers would have been covered either way. My issue with Alaska Airlines (your example) is that they've received (2) U.S bailout packages and now they're getting a subsidized Canadian workforce, courtesy of the Canadian tax payer, with the CEWS program, that's not fair to Canadian carriers who will be at a huge disadvantage when this is over .. if its ever over. I'm not saying that's Alaska or any other carriers fault or problem, nor do I blame them for taking advantage of our inept government. I'm frustrated with our government and its lack of leadership and ability to get organized. They can fire cash out the door in record time .. but there is more vaccine in the freezer than the arms of Canadians.

https://www.fr24news.com/a/2021/01/fore ... idies.html


+1 .. I’m not against the carriers using CERB for employees. However, I do think the bailouts these carriers received put them at a disadvantage relative to Canadian carriers. ( I agree with Localizer)

Part of me also also thinks Trudeau has an agenda.. another part thinks he’s too out to lunch and that might be the reason Canada is the only G7 country not to provide sector specific support to its aviation industry. He’s bailing out airports and not the airlines .. WTF?

Lastly, I worry for all of those in the aviation industry and their families .. ... from those who work at the airport Starbucks/ my favorite cafe, the ramp agents, fuellers, CSA’s, maintenance, FA’s and fellow pilots.. we’re not just numbers we’re people with families and lives as well.

I also worry for those in other sectors who’ve been laid off and those dealing with the virus..

Jobs and people’s mental health and physical are important... it’s all interconnected. It’s not either or .. it’s “ and” aka “ both.” Our PM would be an excellent candidate for dialectical behavioral therapy!

[altiplano]

CEWS largely just makes the job numbers look better for the Liberals at a comparable cost to EI.

But the fact is that many foreign carriers are keeping operations going, with staff paid by the Canadian taxpayer, competing with Canadian carriers.

Is the US government subsidizing Air Canada or WestJet employees in LAX or LGA?

No.

Is China or the EU or the UK any other country subsidizing the work force that supports our airline operations in their country?

No.

But these countries are all subsidizing their airlines and Canadians are subsidizing those airlines' operations in our country, competing with our airlines.

It's a completely tilted playing field.

When our airlines end up going belly up we will see the Liberals open up our skies for subsidized foreign carriers to come and fill the service that Canadians want. We will have no control, less choice, less competition, flying will get even more expensive. It won't be Canadian jobs on board, it will be cherry picking the best routes, and off-shoreing the profits and investment.

[Inverted2]

CERB/CEWS is just EI under a different name to keep the unemployment numbers lower.

It’s the Liberal regimes attempt to save face and hide the true number of unemployed Canadians.

[Inverted2]

Sorry altiplano beat me to it by a minute.

[digits_]

Go ahead and vaccinate the guards .. I don't think you'll hear anyone complain. Prisoners seem to have more rights than the general public these days .. so ass backwards, but we shouldn't be shocked .. everything is ass backwards in Trudeau's Canada. (my opinion)

Why is it backwards? If a society deems that certain individuals need to be locked up because they don't conform to society's standards, then the least we could do is keep them safe in that process, if we want to appear a little bit cvilized.
It's also kind of hard to self isolate in a prison, so it would make sense they would get vaccinated first if they want to.

It's much easier for free people to isolate in the comfort of their home, vs in a prison cell.


Or, if you look at it from a different point of view, would you rather prefer a prison covid outbreak, which results in the local hospital being overflooded by inmates, taking up precious hospital beds?