Left or Right seat

[RegionalPilot]

Quick question that will probably be easy to answer for some of you:

Is there any restrictions to have a SIC fly left seat and the PIC fly right seat? I’m not debating about PICUS or who is the captain. The right seat guy is the PIC and the left seat is the SIC. No specific PPC training was given to the SIC on the left seat.

My question is 703/704 specific, but I’m curious also about 705.

[porcsord]

Both pilots will need Right/Left seat conversion training, but other than that, it would be totally fine.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

At my 705 operator, the SIC / FO SHALL only operate from the right seat. The only exceptions are upgrade to CAPT training, line check, or other training events.

[ahramin]

The CARs have absolutely nothing to say about PIC / SIC in the left or right seat. The requirement is for each pilot to be trained in the seat they are occupying for that flight. This does not have to be a PPC. Doing a PPC in the right seat and then 3 circuits in the left seat is sufficient training for a pilot to occupy either seat.

There will always be Captains that are trained in both seats for training purposes and some airlines will train all Captains in both seats for scheduling flexibility. I have never come across a 703/704/705 airline that trained SICs in the left seat for normal operations.

Most 2 crew aircraft are designed for the more experienced pilot to be sitting in the left seat. Many Boeing aircraft cannot be taxied on the ground from the right seat. Even Airbus aircraft, which are flown identically from either seat, have failure situations where only the left seat pilot will be able to fly the aircraft. At most if not all airlines in Canada though, PIC / SIC is determined by seniority rather than experience.

There was an accident in Québec about a decade ago where neither pilot was sitting in the seat they were qualified to operate and it had some small bearing on the accident. I'll try to dig it up.

[who me ?]

I believe, an sic cannot occupy the left seat of a large multi engine turbojet aircraft ,
If he only holds a ppl, with, type rating ,multi engine , ifr and intra written. ?

[ahramin]

I believe, an sic cannot occupy the left seat of a large multi engine turbojet aircraft ,
If he only holds a ppl, with, type rating ,multi engine , ifr and intra written. ?

CARs reference please.

[W5]

Once upon a time we used to swap seats all the time.

[schnitzel2k3]

If the aircraft is multicrew, and the left seat requires an ATPL to fly from the left, then that is required as well for the SIC.
Insurance will need to be onboard for your specific operation.
You will need SOPs in place, as well as COM references.
And lastly conversion training for the respective seat.

If you aren't the Chief, then speak to your Chief or DFO as they will have more guidance regarding your specific parameters.

I don't believe 705 has any leeway regarding this. Right is right, left is left - mind you I see people on Dash 8's rocking out in the left seat with 3 bars, so who knows.

[ahramin]

If the aircraft is multicrew, and the left seat requires an ATPL to fly from the left, then that is required as well for the SIC.

Could you please tell me an aircraft type that requires an ATPL to fly from the left seat?

[porcsord]

If the aircraft is multicrew, and the left seat requires an ATPL to fly from the left, then that is required as well for the SIC.

Could you please tell me an aircraft type that requires an ATPL to fly from the left seat?

None, that is not a correct statement. An ATPL would be required to act as PIC, but it does not determine the seat, as I'm sure you know.

[schnitzel2k3]

If the aircraft is multicrew, and the left seat requires an ATPL to fly from the left, then that is required as well for the SIC.

Could you please tell me an aircraft type that requires an ATPL to fly from the left seat?

No aircraft require an ATPL to fly from the left, they'll require a CPL with the IATRA, but good luck getting insurance for said aircraft if it is multicrew only. ATPL guarantees (if you don't flop the ride) you'll hold the type rating and will likely qualify for the underwriters requirement as well.

I was speaking for insurance, not just regulatory bare minima.

[Redneck_pilot86]

Some aircraft, such as the C208, specify that the PIC must be in the left seat, in the AFM. Most aircraft in the 703 realm don't specify, but worth a look for your particular aircraft. If it doesn't specify, you can sit in either seat. I regularly fly from the right seat in single pilot vfr ops.

[Johnny]

Some aircraft, such as the C208, specify that the PIC must be in the left seat, in the AFM.

IIRC the 208 only specifies that the minimum crew is one pilot in the left seat, but that pilot need not necessarily be the PIC.

[ahramin]

If the aircraft is multicrew, and the left seat requires an ATPL to fly from the left, then that is required as well for the SIC.

Could you please tell me an aircraft type that requires an ATPL to fly from the left seat?

No aircraft require an ATPL to fly from the left, they'll require a CPL with the IATRA, but good luck getting insurance for said aircraft if it is multicrew only. ATPL guarantees (if you don't flop the ride) you'll hold the type rating and will likely qualify for the underwriters requirement as well.

I was speaking for insurance, not just regulatory bare minima.

Ok, can you name me any aircraft type that requires a CPL?

[Big Pistons Forever]

From the CAR's

421.40 Blanket and Individual Type Ratings

(3) Individual Type Rating Requirements
(a) Aeroplane - Two Crew
(i) Knowledge
An applicant for an individual aircraft type rating for aeroplanes with a minimum flight crew requirement of at least two pilots shall have completed a program of ground school instruction and flight training on the aeroplane type, and
(amended 2006/12/14)

Private Pilot Licence - Aeroplane or Commercial Pilot Licence-Aeroplane
(A) in the case of the holder of a Private Pilot Licence-Aeroplane or Commercial Pilot Licence-Aeroplane, within the 24 months preceding the application for the first endorsement of the two crew rating, an applicant shall have obtained a minimum score of 70 percent (70%) on the Type Rating-Aeroplane ( IATRA ) written examination;
(amended 2001/03/01)

[schnitzel2k3]

Could you please tell me an aircraft type that requires an ATPL to fly from the left seat?

No aircraft require an ATPL to fly from the left, they'll require a CPL with the IATRA, but good luck getting insurance for said aircraft if it is multicrew only. ATPL guarantees (if you don't flop the ride) you'll hold the type rating and will likely qualify for the underwriters requirement as well.

I was speaking for insurance, not just regulatory bare minima.

Ok, can you name me any aircraft type that requires a CPL?

Any commercially operated aircraft under a 703/704 ticket. Take your pick. OP was asking regarding 703/704, lets not be dense.

[ahramin]

No aircraft require an ATPL to fly from the left, they'll require a CPL with the IATRA, but good luck getting insurance for said aircraft if it is multicrew only. ATPL guarantees (if you don't flop the ride) you'll hold the type rating and will likely qualify for the underwriters requirement as well.

I was speaking for insurance, not just regulatory bare minima.

Ok, can you name me any aircraft type that requires a CPL?

Any commercially operated aircraft under a 703/704 ticket. Take your pick. OP was asking regarding 703/704, lets not be dense.

Lets not. The OP was asking about Left or Right Seat, to which you commented:

If the aircraft is multicrew, and the left seat requires an ATPL to fly from the left, then that is required as well for the SIC

Which we have established is incorrect, but you corrected that by stating that a CPL would be required to fly from the left seat.

So yes, in the context of the original question a CPL is required to fly from the left seat. It's also required to fly from the right seat, so lets not be dense and continue pretending that the license type has anything to do with which seat you can occupy. The regulations are completely silent on which seat must be occupied by the PIC or the SIC on multi crew aircraft. I have never seen an insurance policy that had anything to say about it either so if you know differently please post the details.

Come to think of it, I have seen one situation where the Captain had to be in the left seat. A Company Operations Manual I was auditing required the Captain to be in the left seat for low vis takeoffs. As soon as I pointed out the problems this could cause during Captain line indoc, they changed it to require that if the SIC was in the left seat they must be Captain qualified.

[schnitzel2k3]

You are indeed correct and it was I who was being obtuse.

I was hung on a singular event from my past whereby restrictions were placed on a cojo and I believed it was the licensing that had restricted him when it had actually been he only had a right seat checkout.

My apologies Ahramin. I cannot find a specific regulation that defines who sits where, only who has command of what.

Cheers,

S.

[Heliian]

Pic in my helicopter is right seat, as per the RFM. You can fly from the left if there's another pilot in the right but cannot fly solo in the left.

So, it depends on the aircraft limitations and then your oc SOPs, and the CARs.

In our case, the right seat still has to be occupied by an appropriately rated pilot.

[valleyboy]

The seat does not matter, what matters is the PIC. If the crew is x-trained, legal, current and operationally blessed, (expect for ferry flights, non rev, then currency is not necessary, except for insurance issues). It seems to me this whole thread was started based on wannabe captains, low timers salivating over being in the money seat. Most are assuming commercial ops but what about the pleasure pilot who owns his own aircraft, that is a different kettle of fish. Got the license, fill your boots and sit in whatever seat you want.

Get use to the "right" seat, if you a lucky enough to have a job you are going to be there for a while and with recall and current times and projections you might retire before you see that "magic" seat. Aviation can be very cruel, ask anyone who is retired now and have lived it. Covid is a new wrinkle but the peaks and troughs are not.

Did my eyes deceive me but those icons on canadian aviation sit in alternating seats when the team is performing. I also witnessed a single member on a solo ferry flight sitting in the right seat. Other than specified by A/C certification it really does not matter.

A DC3 (ya I know) is much more convenient to fly single pilot from the right seat for reaching stuff but a metre stick solves that issue.