Countries better than Canada for flying?

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Firstly this industry is like any other experienced based profession. Like plumbers and electricians (no way you can compare aviation to doctors, engineers or lawyers) apprentice positions pay shit and expect long hours.

Having said all that I have always discouraged hiring pilot wantabes to fill ramp and non flying positions. Mainly because the thirst of wanting to fly makes them real shitty grunts and office staff.

We are our own worst enemies. Whores and prostitutes who will accept that employer who is just exploiting cheap wages and slave labour. Promising you the world with no intention of living up to promises.

There is no solution apparent to this problem. We as a whole don't have the ability not to follow that carrot.

PS I’ve followed that same damn carrot a few times earlier in my career too, it’s always an oasis unless you have sore knees and soft lips.

[newlygrounded]

The only good move is not to play.

[ant_321]

Oh great. He’s back.

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Well airlines like Cargojet and Flair are expanding.
People are shopping more and more online so cargo is here to stay.

There is a video floating around about the pilot pay in Canada in 2021. I’d highly recommend you check it out.


[YouTube] https://youtu.be/5fQjrIxoNjE[/YouTube]

Literally flying rubber dog sh1t out of Hong Kong lol

[Kejidog]

The only good move is not to play.

Ok. Keep telling yourself your a winner because you quit. The new normal. Whatever makes you happy.

[tsgas]

The only good move is not to play.

Ok. Keep telling yourself your a winner because you quit. The new normal. Whatever makes you happy.

Don't be too rough on the kid. Uber needs drivers like him.

[newlygrounded]

The only good move is not to play.

Ok. Keep telling yourself your a winner because you quit. The new normal. Whatever makes you happy.

Don't be too rough on the kid. Uber needs drivers like him.

I probably make more than you but keep spending your free time thinking about politicians and trolling people for fun.

[newlygrounded]

The only good move is not to play.

Ok. Keep telling yourself your a winner because you quit. The new normal. Whatever makes you happy.

So working for LESS than minimum wage in - 30 is a winning move in your mind?

[tsgas]

Ok. Keep telling yourself your a winner because you quit. The new normal. Whatever makes you happy.

Don't be too rough on the kid. Uber needs drivers like him.

I probably make more than you but keep spending your free time thinking about politicians and trolling people for fun.

Sure kid , you make a fortune on your allowance because of your Phd , Papa Has Dough !!!!!!!!!

[newlygrounded]

Don't be too rough on the kid. Uber needs drivers like him.

I probably make more than you but keep spending your free time thinking about politicians and trolling people for fun.

Sure kid , you make a fortune on your allowance because of your Phd , Papa Has Dough !!!!!!!!!

It's funny have wrong you are at this point. Keep having people live in your head rent free

[tsgas]

I probably make more than you but keep spending your free time thinking about politicians and trolling people for fun.

Sure kid , you make a fortune on your allowance because of your Phd , Papa Has Dough !!!!!!!!!

It's funny have wrong you are at this point. Keep having people live in your head rent free

EDITED Strike one.

[Panama Jack]

They're still letting the Aussies and a few others fly on their visas in the US. It represents a problem for unemployed US citizen pilots because they are essentially a foreigner taking up what should be job slots for Americans, not unlike the Sunwing TFW thing. I know of one airline that has almost 50 of them, and they won't go home. The Aussies use a Labor Condition Application, which doesn't require the employer to prove that US citizens are available to do the job, only that their employment won't affect that of their colleagues...But that is a false concept because the only work that the Aussies can do is in the US. They will be the first to agree to sink working conditions because of desperation. The unions really couldn't foresee it-OTOH the unions failed to produce "go home" language at every carrier that has hired the Aussies.

The Aussie thing isn’t specific to pilots. It was a bi-product of the Australia-US Free Trade Agreement that allowed for a reciprocal non-immigrant work visa agreement.

On what basis would the unions be able to discriminate against a nationality (of foreigners in general) that has the legal right to work in the United States? Besides, these employees are dues paying members of the same union with seniority numbers just like all the other pilots.

[redlaser]

Did anyone mention MEXICO, after southern Ontario, Western Canada is the worst because of the weather, and Europe because of the price,

[“”Bob””]

I hear Colombia is pretty good too.

[OneYonge]

Some people overestimate their value. FYI you are not the center of the Universe.

What they overestimate is labour market demand.

The general cost of flight training inflates the perceived value of said training...

especially when you are in a situation where the consumer demand for flight training overwhelmingly exceeds actual labour demand for workers who've finished the training.

The job market is based on Supply and Demand.

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

What they overestimate is labour market demand.

The general cost of flight training inflates the perceived value of said training...

especially when you are in a situation where the consumer demand for flight training overwhelmingly exceeds actual labour demand for workers who've finished the training.

The job market is based on Supply and Demand.

+1

[DadoBlade]

redlaser said "...Western Canada has the worst weather". During WW.II, the majority of BCATP training bases were located in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba because of more VFR weather conditions than the rest of Canada. The RCAF's present training base in in Saskatchewan.

[HSH17]

So have you finished your flying lessons yet? The last time I replied to you you were crying about giving up and how hard it was and how hard done by you are. Has this situation changed?

So are you a pilot looking for work seriously; or a troll looking for the easiest least amount of work path to a flying job?

I would suggest applying yourself with some work ethic. Hellian was right in his advice.

You in a forum of pilots with thousands of hours who have lost carriers because of this COVID clusterfuck and you’re crying poor me looking for the easy way? How easy do you think it is to emigrate? Have you even looked at this?

Do you honestly think that you have it harder than anyone else has had it, on here?
Maybe look up Piloty on here if you want to learn what a good attitude seems to be. He’s (she) gonna be successful I would guess just from from the way he (she)presents himself (herself) in writing. To be successful you should emulate successful people


I think maybe you should just apply yourself do the hard work and maybe just maybe, someone my see your stellar potential and let you work loading freight and fuelling planes after several hours perhaps years of doing this you might get the opportunity to fly a plane or two. As far as I can see this is how a lot of people have got to where they are today. Not everyone gets to start at the top as you seem to think that you’re entitled to. Everyone has had it hard. Every generation thinks it is so special, yours especially(whatever it is)

You sound like a bitter boomer who’s never had to spend 50% of their monthly income on a crappy apartment. Stop talking down to someone who’s brought up valid points. It’s really annoying seeing older people act like they’re smarter just because they’re mad they had to work the ramp for years before sitting right seat in a clapped out Navajo.

[HSH17]

I think it's idiotic people sign their lives away for years for a MAYBE that most of the time doesn't actually lead to anything, and even if it works out leads to a role that's criminally underpaid. You know what's a great way to improve the world record low pay we have? More people saying NO!

Agreed, these geriatrics that run these toilet operators need some pushback, but it only takes one bottom feeders to offer to work for free or better yet to PAY to fly revenue to spoil it for the rest. Both of which I have seen personally done in my career from rich spawn I was competing with. This industry is in disgusting shape and needs some kind of entity to enforce wages like the red seal world.

I shake my head reading this forum sometimes.

To put it in perspective, this hasn’t changed much, at least in the 35 years I have been in this industry. I started at a regional for $1800/mth which equates to about $3500 today. Pretty similar, if not less than the stating wages now. And no I could not afford to buy a house at base with those wages either. Nor did I expect to on an entry level wage.

The difference between then and now is I and others that joined the industry and then Air BC, Time Air, OEL, Air Ontario, air Nova, PWA, CP, AC etc. with significantly more experience than those today, we knew the deal and accepted the conditions for a payoff years done the road. And it has paid off handsomely for me in both pay and lifestyle. Those joining the industry today don’t seem to have the same patience.

If you’re not willing to ‘pay your dues’ so to speak, you will have difficulty getting ahead in any industry. Aviation, a trade or anywhere else. That’s life so get on with it and quit whining about it. If you don’t have the stomach to weather the ups and downs in aviation, and there will be many in a career, go do something else. Don’t think life won’t throw you a few curveballs in another career either.

Some will write this off a ‘Boomer rant’, but it’s reality

100% a boomer rant. Notice how you’re talking about not being able to afford a house? All of us late millennials/gen z can’t even afford rent. Reality’s different now

[Bug_Stomper_01]

Agreed, these geriatrics that run these toilet operators need some pushback, but it only takes one bottom feeders to offer to work for free or better yet to PAY to fly revenue to spoil it for the rest. Both of which I have seen personally done in my career from rich spawn I was competing with. This industry is in disgusting shape and needs some kind of entity to enforce wages like the red seal world.

I shake my head reading this forum sometimes.

To put it in perspective, this hasn’t changed much, at least in the 35 years I have been in this industry. I started at a regional for $1800/mth which equates to about $3500 today. Pretty similar, if not less than the stating wages now. And no I could not afford to buy a house at base with those wages either. Nor did I expect to on an entry level wage.

The difference between then and now is I and others that joined the industry and then Air BC, Time Air, OEL, Air Ontario, air Nova, PWA, CP, AC etc. with significantly more experience than those today, we knew the deal and accepted the conditions for a payoff years done the road. And it has paid off handsomely for me in both pay and lifestyle. Those joining the industry today don’t seem to have the same patience.

If you’re not willing to ‘pay your dues’ so to speak, you will have difficulty getting ahead in any industry. Aviation, a trade or anywhere else. That’s life so get on with it and quit whining about it. If you don’t have the stomach to weather the ups and downs in aviation, and there will be many in a career, go do something else. Don’t think life won’t throw you a few curveballs in another career either.

Some will write this off a ‘Boomer rant’, but it’s reality

100% a boomer rant. Notice how you’re talking about not being able to afford a house? All of us late millennials/gen z can’t even afford rent. Reality’s different now

It’s disgusting, some of these old farts live in trailer parks, dry and wet docked boats, employers hangars or even personal vehicles too afford to live at these wages (I can’t make this stuff up and all I can cite names which for respect I won’t).

Ya talking about living with garbage, working your tail off for years and barely creeping ahead in wage or likely taking hits from paying for training etc and it “paying dividends” pfffff. This guy drank the coolaide and if he doesn’t know he wasted his life in this trade then he’s so sick he doesn’t even realize it (or in denial).
Anyone with any wherewithal either got out while it was good or is on the way out. Contract and keep your licence current that’s all I’d advise.
Look at wages right now, they’re so low it makes more sense to stay on EI or flip burgers.
The sad reality is that these operators pray on middle of the road intelligent and or mentally ill / desperate naive individuals to fill these roles and pump them with industry brewed BS (Coolaide) and recycle their (type training) for decades then punt them when they’re too old or dead.
Canadas Airmen don’t retire, most can’t afford to, they work till they’re dead. I know one that lives in a non house condition aforementioned that said he was almost retired over ten years ago. Same guy messaged me out of the blue after years of silence (likely looking for a line on work) spun the same crap. “Almost retired” over a decade later. The guy has been working for almost 50 years, it makes me sad but these people do it to themselves. Anyways I digress I could go on and on but it’s all the same and will never change. Take your training and knowledge and work for yourself or get out of the industry or both. The disease this industry has spawned (not COVID-19) is incurable with current supply and demand as well as our lack of industry support from all agencies involved that can stop this.

END RANT