BC harbours, two blade props

[PilotDAR]

Is anyone aware of a rule (provincially or locally) in BC about two blade prop floatplanes using harbours? I have been told, though cannot find written anywhere, that two blade floatplanes are prohibited from some BC harbours, I presume for noise. Can anyone point me to a rule if there is one, preferably in writing? I need some background information on three blade prop use for a discussion with TC I'm involved with about approving them by STC.

[fish4life]

I’m not familiar with a rule but could they have a Db limit and the 2 blade props could exceed that?

[scdriver]

I have also heard that two bladers are not allowed in certain places, including the river at YVR and downtown, but I couldn't find any written rule in a brief search. There is a noise management plan at YVR but I didn't see any specific restriction on two blade props, simply standard noise abatement routes. I have flown a two blade into the river and nobody seemed to notice, but it's worth noting there's a difference between a 180 and a beaver with that prop. As an aside, there are a couple of neighbourhood association complaints from Vancouver and Victoria about noise and emissions that are quite funny to read. I guess some people don't like the smell of Jet A in the morning... If you manage to track down a written regulation please share it, I'd be interested to know if it actually exists.

[simply_no_one]

I am pretty sure Vancouver harbour doesn't allow two blade props. Victoria harbour is likely the same but I'm not sure. I've def landed on south arm with a two blade, and didn't get in shit or approached for it.

The rest of the lower mainland, two blade is not really an issue. It really is mostly just harbour areas where people live.

[scdriver]

I am pretty sure Vancouver harbour doesn't allow two blade props. Victoria harbour is likely the same but I'm not sure. I've def landed on south arm with a two blade, and didn't get in shit or approached for it.

The rest of the lower mainland, two blade is not really an issue. It really is mostly just harbour areas where people live.

Do you have a written reference for that restriction? I couldn’t find anything on google and there’s no such restriction in the noise section of the water supp.

[Blowin' In The Wind]

I’m almost positive that I read it for a few locations, but looking now I can’t find anything. Maybe my brain just made up that memory... I do know that we avoided a certain few spots for just that reason.

[Redneck_pilot86]

unrelated to floatplanes, but there is a mod for the BN2 islander to take it from a 2 blade to a 4 blade, specifically for noise reduction, mainly in Europe but the STC exists in Canada as well - might give you something for your debate.

[scdriver]

I’m almost positive that I read it for a few locations, but looking now I can’t find anything. Maybe my brain just made up that memory... I do know that we avoided certain a few spots for just that reason.

I think this is one of those things that everyone’s been told but it never actually existed!

[PilotDAR]

take it from a 2 blade to a 4 blade, specifically for noise reduction,

Yeah, much more to come on that, in another thread, soon. I'm firming up my discussion points for a response to TC first...

[freakonature]

Where I live these are municipal bylaws that are never enforced.

[TeePeeCreeper]

take it from a 2 blade to a 4 blade, specifically for noise reduction,

Yeah, much more to come on that, in another thread, soon. I'm firming up my discussion points for a response to TC first...

I wouldn’t even go that far...

I’ve flown out of both Victoria harbour, Coal harbour and out of AM9 extensively. If any regs are stipulated than they are very new.

Silly question DAR; I know EASA regs are very stringent when it comes to DB levels and noise abatement but are you getting the sentiment that TC is actually pushing to attempt to legislate anything in regards to certain harbour authorities vein attempt to flex their muscles?

Regards,

TPC

[PilotDAR]

See my new thread, and silly long post....

[co-joe]

Is the the 2 blade prop that makes the 185 so loud? That thing rattles windows.

[boeingboy]

Your not going to find anything written anywhere. Local bylaws or rules are not legally binding as aviation is Federally regulated. It's just like the BS the major airports tried to pull by saying they would not allow Boeing Max aircraft to use the airports, and the stuff local authorities have been trying to pull back east - but have been shot down by the courts.

If the aircraft are certified and the aerodromes are legal ones - there is nothing anyone can do about it if it's not in the CAR's or other Federal laws.

[rigpiggy]

unrelated to floatplanes, but there is a mod for the BN2 islander to take it from a 2 blade to a 4 blade, specifically for noise reduction, mainly in Europe but the STC exists in Canada as well - might give you something for your debate.

Avoid the mt's, they are fragile, after market service is garbage and you lose 400# gtow

[rigpiggy]

Your not going to find anything written anywhere. Local bylaws or rules are not legally binding as aviation is Federally regulated. It's just like the BS the major airports tried to pull by saying they would not allow Boeing Max aircraft to use the airports, and the stuff local authorities have been trying to pull back east - but have been shot down by the courts.

If the aircraft are certified and the aerodromes are legal ones - there is nothing anyone can do about it if it's not in the CAR's or other Federal laws.

This

[redlaser]

I flew a Cessna 185 on floats with a two blade prop out of Montreal for years and people would complain to TC about the noise but rivers and lakes belong to the federal government and not the local municipalities, So their complaints went nowhere, but we did not fly over houses after take off but remained over the river till we reached 1500 feet or more to keep down the sound level. Some people buy homes next to an airport or seaplane base then they complain about the noise,

[fish4life]

I flew a Cessna 185 on floats with a two blade prop out of Montreal for years and people would complain to TC about the noise but rivers and lakes belong to the federal government and not the local municipalities, So their complaints went nowhere, but we did not fly over houses after take off but remained over the river till we reached 1500 feet or more to keep down the sound level. Some people buy homes next to an airport or seaplane base then they complain about the noise,

2 blade 185 on a cool calm morning is probably one of the best sounds on this planet

[PilotDAR]

2 blade 185 on a cool calm morning is probably one of the best sounds on this planet

I have similar feelings. And... there are people who think a snarky modified Honda Civic exhaust, or loud motorcycle are their preferred best sounds - with whom I do not agree...

But, in the context of an aviation forum, and with my understanding of TC's regs (which I did challenge in writing at inception about 25 years ago), the reality is that TC has applied great oversight on my approving replacement propellers on GA planes, and doing so has made it largely cost prohibitive. I'm working with them to find a path through, but I'm getting the idea that few TC Standards staff think a two blade 185 departing is a good sound....

[redlaser]

One thing is for sure is that a two blade is a lot more efficient than a three blade, especially with a fully loaded Cessna 185, Do you know of any TC employees who own an aircraft, I don't.