Vancouver Sun - BUY IT WEDNESDAY! SONIC BLUE SLAMMED......

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sky's the limit
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Post by sky's the limit »

Ivan,

I'm sorry, is it $40k?

Stock Options??? Nice little savings plan, but taking home $1400/mo is BS. And yes, I do point it out. I also point out that the service IS good, the flights are usually on time, and that the a/c are well maintained. I do try to be fair.

Yes I call myself a proffessional - I won't prostitute my services for that kind of wage after many years of experience. British Airways starting wage on the A320 - $110,000 CND... A bit excessive? Possibly, but you guys have a long away to go before running into that problem.

You have obviously bought in to the company line - I guess you have no choice. Why don't you tell us about the guys who have left WJ after a year becasue they can't afford it?

I assume you work there - good for you, you've made it. But don't forget that every TV I watch in the seatback in front of me comes out of your wages... How's you're benefit package? Don't worry, I already know, and it's not very good unless you pay for the extra - even then, it's sub-par. Welcom to Alberta... But you're flying the Big Iron now - well, it flies itself doesn't it?

I do applaud WJ for keeping their a/c in good order, but as someone else asked in another thread, what's going to happen when they're not so new anymore, and require more maintainance?

This is not about WJ, I shouldn't have brought it up, I don't want to hijack this thread as it's a good one, but thank you for clearly illustrating the type of attitude that prevailes in our industry - you've saved me some typing. The longer people think that living on peanuts for the first 5-10yrs of their careers, then graduating to the astronomical wage of $60-$100K is acceptable, the longer low-timers will work for free.

STL

We can continue this by PM if you wish, as I say, I shouldn't have brought it up here.
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classiv
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Post by classiv »

Sonic Blue FO, monthly, on average:

$400-500 for three days a week (average)

Sonic Blue Captain, monthly, on average:

$1200-1600 for four to five days a week, perhaps less.

Well, this is a slight step up from working for free I guess. Way to go Regency!

Still, I find these wages absolutely absurd.

Let's compare:

McDonalds Worker (Min Wage in BC is $8/hr)

Total Monthy salary at 40 hours/week: $1280 before tax

Responsibilities: Managing the deep fry. Taking out the garbage. If you screw up, the worst thing that can happen is someone gets cold french fries.

No experience required. High school diploma not always required.

Pilot Captain at Regency/Sonic Blue $

Total Monthly salary: $1200-1600 a month.

Responsibilies: The safe operation of very expensive aircraft (often 1 million plus dollars) in a demanding environment (often hard weather) in complex airspace. You are also responsibile for people's lives.

Experience: Minimum training Commercial and MIFR (value approx $35,000), don't forget the PPC you have to buy (add $5,000), and then to be a Captain you're going to need a lot more than just no experience with a bare 200 hours.
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rampgenie
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Post by rampgenie »

Not only do you have to pay for your initial PPC at sonic, but they make you pay 2500$ to renew your PPC after a year of earning 500$ a month. In at least one case the pilot counldn't afford to pay for his renewal, so the company made him give up his automobile for use as a crew car.
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godsrcrazy
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Post by godsrcrazy »

Ivan you beat me to it here.

Sky if you beleive the WJ guys are so under paid why do you fly with them. OH ya your boss pays the ticket. So he buys you a cheap ticket so he can pay you more. In return you sit in the back watching the TV and bitch that these guys work for nothing wages. Do you also tell them all about how you wont work for that wage and how ypour boss pays you more because hes paying less.

How many on this site only Fly with Air Canada because they pay there pilots the best wage. I bet everyone bitching here that goes on holidays runs to the computer to find what discount airline they can fly on to save a buck. So while your busy shopping for a free ticket someone else is working cheap.

What about the bus drivers running around packing 75 plus people. Do you think hes making over $50,000.00 a year and in a couple of years when they have 400,000 miles under there belt they will get more money. I dont think so. Now your going to tell me all about how much it cost us for our License.

CYYZ you and CID hit it on the head its funny how after some thing happens we all jump on the band wagon with comments like it was a matter of time and every on knew. Exactly who holds a gun to our head to fly shit aircraft over loaded. NOBODY we do it to our self.
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sky's the limit
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Post by sky's the limit »

Actually,

I request AC whenever it's practical, unfortunately, the timing/sched doesn't always work out.

An NO, my employer does not send me on them becasue they're cheaper(which they are not most of the time, it's usually identical fares), it's all about the timing/connections. Wouldn't your arguement sound good if that wasn't the case - but it is.

I did not "jump on this bandwagon," I've been riding it for years...

STL
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Last edited by sky's the limit on Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
MUSKEG
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Post by MUSKEG »

I heard starting salary at Tim Hortons Fort St. John B.C. 15 bucks an hr and if you stay 3 months an mp3 player. 15x40=600x4=2400 roughly FO salary at most places. But at least you won't get fat flying( can't afford food)
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flyinhigh
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Post by flyinhigh »

rampgenie wrote:Not only do you have to pay for your initial PPC at sonic, but they make you pay 2500$ to renew your PPC after a year of earning 500$ a month. In at least one case the pilot counldn't afford to pay for his renewal, so the company made him give up his automobile for use as a crew car.
Dude, your frickin kidding right, I
This company is ...I don't have words for it anymore. To depressing
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CAL
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Post by CAL »

..
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Last edited by CAL on Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by CAL »

I come back to Canada quite often and to be honest I dont usually see much difference between the fares on a/c and wj....

And I wouldnt want to hold WJ stock....especially as part of a salary package, or as it would appear. Salary is just that....salary. It covers day to day costs and thus it has to be liquid (cash)....holding stock means nothing today unless you can use it to buy detergent. When you retire thats a different thing....if ofcourse it is worth anything then, which is probably wont....well unless you run out of wood to burn.
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TorontoGuy
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Post by TorontoGuy »

Re the newspaper article.

Not very sound.

As a former newspaper reporter of more than a decade's experience, I read this and saw one disgruntled source and no other. Also, no documentation or evidence from the source. No one backing him up. Just unsubstantiated accusations and heresay.

Frankly, I'm not sure I would have submitted this story to my editors if the info had come to me. Hatchet jobs with no back-up weren't my style.

And you'd be surprised how many guys carrying grudges, complaints, conspiracy theories, contemplated law suits and all manner of other gripes, stories and accusations come through a news room's door every week. You learn pretty quickly to get a nose for news and a sense of what's just talk.
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Last edited by TorontoGuy on Wed Jan 25, 2006 11:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
CAL
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Post by CAL »

not sure when the spilt was....but here is WJA on the tse: have a look at the 5 year and 1 charts boys and girls... what a performer....
I think most employees well other than those that held the stock since it went public! would take industry standard salaries over stock. Its a good idea in addition to a salary but not in place of.

http://www.tsx.com/HttpController?GetPa ... a&x=50&y=9
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Post by Flybabe »

WTF?? :shock:
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Post by xkbal »

sky's the limit wrote: My company flies me around on WJ frequently, and I usualy let the people beside me know what the starting wages are for their Flight Crew - lets just say the reaction isn't positive.
I agree that the wages in the industry are generally appallingly low. That being said, do you also make the same comments when flying Air Canada or Jazz as their starting wages are virtually identical or lower than Westjet?
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sky's the limit
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Post by sky's the limit »

Yes.

And time permitting, I also tell them about pension plans, benefits, and the fact that the "Low-cost" carriers have ushered in a new era where even the large airlines are, for the most part, drastically revamping their pay structure.

I'm just not sure why we're all so anxious to buy into what they're selling... I don't think Milton or Clive are hurting - do you?

STL
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V1
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Post by V1 »

There is a big article in the Province today. I am so happy that Ed's family and other's are speaking up.
Once again if the goverment lets companies pay as little as they do, people are going jump through that loop hole.
Also another fact for you, Sonic captains pilots work 14 hour days (usually 6 hour break away from home) for about 55-80/day (dependent on mileage), FO's just cut that in half. Caravan pilots made more.
I really hope the media are reading this website, because people need to know this stuff, and it has to change.
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xsbank
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Post by xsbank »

I've been saying this for years and years and yes, here it is again: YOU ARE THE ONLY PART OF THE 'PLANE WHOSE COSTS ARE NEGOTIABLE. Capital cost? Fuel? Parts costs? Insurance? Hangar rent? BMW lease costs?

"Not doing so good this month - tell the bank we'll start paying them again in July; tell the fueler we'll pay him half-price for the fuel coz its too expensive; phone the parts guy and tell him to send us $5000 and a F.C.U., we'll start paying him if he improves his delivery times; Oh, and tell the pilots they need to increase their training bonds, and when they get to 1000 hours we'll start paying them again." Which part of this is true?

Why should the pilot take the hit? We shouldn't, but almost all of us will, because there's too many of us and the 'rules' make it impossible to rock the boat, blow the whistle, or move to another job. "Oh, don't hire him, he called TC at the last place he worked." "Oh, don't hire him, he snags everything." "Oh don't hire him, he likes to ski/boat/camp/live a life after work." "Oh, don't hire him, he likes to be home for his family occasionally."

Wonder why the cost of building something has almost tripled in 5 years? Coz everybody's doing it and there is a shortage of carpenters.

Are any other 'professions' told that "...if you SURVIVE your apprenticeship you might get a chance to quit your first few employers and finally get a job where you can afford groceries?"

Somebody has to just start saying no, and realize the market is glutted with pilots, many of whom will either not survive or will end up at the food banks. Do you really want to live like a MacDonald's employee for years and years and possibly die very young?

Entitlement works both ways - pax think they are entitled to rock-bottom prices, pilots think they are entitled to be pilots. Decide that if you want to be a pilot, that you are worth something - if there are no takers or the market is not interested, go back to school.

With great respect and condolences to the family of our lost fellow aviator, please do not let the death of another of our number pass in vain, or his struggle be forgotten.
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just another pilot
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Post by just another pilot »

xsbank - good post.

Do you realize that navajo pilots in the 70's were making more than turbine captains today? Living wages are a paramount issue in aviation today, and the only solution (and the only power) a prospective empoyee has is the ability to say "no thanks I cannot live on that". If not your skills, than at least your time must be worth something - if not, it was never a viable career to begin with. All bullshit aside - that is the simple truth.
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Post by flynbutcher »

rampgenie wrote:Not only do you have to pay for your initial PPC at sonic, but they make you pay 2500$ to renew your PPC after a year of earning 500$ a month. In at least one case the pilot counldn't afford to pay for his renewal, so the company made him give up his automobile for use as a crew car.
For the first time in since joining AvCanada, I have found a topic that has really pissed me off and actully made me angry :x To give up his car for use as a crew car is unheard of and I'm betting illegal. This is the kind of crap that needs to make it to the headlines in the papers as well. Far as I'm concerned, it's just as bad as Leblanc or probably worse. Who are these people :?: :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Fleet80
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Post by Fleet80 »

First job, Navajo Captain - 1978. $30/hr, minimum 3 hours/day and all expenses paid. Took a 50% paycut to join Air Canada, but looking back, would have to say it was worth it-:)
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Fleet80
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Post by Fleet80 »

First job, Navajo Captain - 1978. $30/hr, minimum 3 hours/day and all expenses paid. Took a 50% paycut to join Air Canada, but looking back, would have to say it was worth it-:)
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