Canadian Global landed on a drag strip

. . · Post by **. .** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:01 pm

post all the news articles you want.
post all your talk/speculation about what happened

do not post pictures of the guy involved
do not name names.

if people continue to post things on the do not list, then the thread gets pulled.

clear as mud?

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:09 pm

I think there is a good moral to be had in these posts. Always, always be sure to land on the correct surface at the correct location or else you will be subject to countless BRUTAL posts about the incident from geniouses like this guy.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:14 pm

Maybe he wanted to see how the Lear stood up at the drag strip. Hope he wasn't racing for pink slips though.

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Wed May 31, 2006 1:18 pm

hahaha... what happend??? I have a few friends who work for this company, haven't heard anything from them, hope they're not the ones involved. Did they have an emergency or just mistake it for a runway?

N2 · Post by N2 » Wed May 31, 2006 2:12 pm

Hope his resume is up to date! Well maybe both of their resumes!

Hmmmm wonder how they are going to brag about being pilots with this one?

Gramps · Post by **Gramps** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:13 pm

Funny thing, this particular CGAA thread. The moderators try to kill it off, yet there’s a continual flow of “experts” wanting to breathe life back into it… none of whom were actually there.

One of the news articles was quick to point out that there are “conflicting stories” as to why it landed where it did. So I for one choose to wait until someone in the know makes a post that clears the whole thing up. As of yet, that hasn’t happened, just this never-ending flow of assumptions from the armchair critics.

Lets say, for arguments sake, the crew had a justifiable reason for doing what they did. It’ll be interesting to see how many of the “experts” who made their posts in a negative light will come forward to say they were a little too quick to jump to conclusions. My guess… none.

To the moderators I say a job well done. I support your position that full names should not be used in cases like this where guilt has yet to be proven. Even if the two pilots (so far no slagging directed towards pilot #2) messed up and just landed at the wrong place, what good can possibly come from dredging this up time after time? This isn’t the first airplane to land at the wrong place, for whatever reasons, and I’ll bet it sure won’t be the last.

I’ve had my say, so time to move on. So…

How about them Oilers!!

Regards to all,

Gramps

N2 · Post by N2 » Wed May 31, 2006 2:40 pm

Gramps ....wrong airport ok but a drag strip come on....these guys shouldn't be flying commercially if they can't tell the difference between a drag strip and an airport. Unless there was an emergency on board then there is absoultley no excuse in the world for this happening.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:56 pm

Wonder if they'll still count it toward their currency requirments, sure you need to do "landings" but I'd always imagined, even though CARs doesn't state they need to be done on runways...

Mach1 · Post by **Mach1** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:05 pm

I haven’t seen any of the previous posts but, and I just wondering here… why pull the whole thread and not just the offending post? That is what seems to occur over at PPRUNE, they edit the individual post instead of the whole thread. Technical issue?

Gramps · Post by **Gramps** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:05 pm

N2, right you are.

Shouldn't happen "unless an emergency". That's exactly what I mean. Does anybody know, for 100% certain, that they didn't have an emergency? If the crew committed this grave error without extenuating circumstances.. Aye Carumba! This we don't know for sure.

Let's all think for a second the descrepencies between drag strip and TNCA airport.

drag strip: 3800' x 70' vs. TNCA: 9000' x 148'
drag strip: no runway markings, except for the 1/4 mile mark. TNCA: standard runway markings
drag strip: no exit points along it's length. TNCA 4 exit points
drag strip: nearest water is 1.5 miles EAST. TNCA: water almost to the threshold from the WEST.
and the BIG one, TNCA lacks staging lights!

I've done 3800' in the -35 lots of times. Trust me, it gets your attention because it looks short. Throw in a narrow "runway" and the problem is compounded. Best be on your 'A' game.

The list goes on and on. So there has to be more to the story that remains to be disclosed. Time will tell...

Regards,

Gramps

Siddley Hawker · Post by **Siddley Hawker** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:20 pm

Kinda hard to mistake a drag strip for an airport. It wouldn't be the first time mistaking one airport for another. Around Montreal, certain airline used to be known as Been Over At Cartierville.

hazatude · Post by **hazatude** » Wed May 31, 2006 5:33 pm

I went home to the wrong house once. Shit happens.

Leerboy · Post by **Leerboy** » Wed May 31, 2006 9:58 pm

Although I have no love for JM's style of "Aw Shucks, please Guys?" form of manipulation, I think that there is a bit more here than may be initially evident. Gramps. You know I respect your opinion so I will let time be the judge on this one. For those that care, I have flown for CGAA and with GW and GW is a good stick. Not there... no opinion.

squawk 7600 · Post by **squawk 7600** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:02 am

Hell, I think the crew should be praised for their excellent flying skills...getting the airplane down on a small strip like that. Also, what makes them even more superior was their ability to make up their own IFR approach and get that puppy on the ground. Max Ward would be proud. On the other hand, their pilot decision making skills and CRM might be in question. This is all assuming they didn't have an emergency.

complexintentions · Post by **complexintentions** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:00 am

Gramps wrote:Funny thing, this particular CGAA thread. The moderators try to kill it off, yet there’s a continual flow of “experts” wanting to breathe life back into it… none of whom were actually there.

Funny indeed.

Gramps,

Your attempts to defend the CGAA crew are noble in principle - I don't think anyone wants to see a crew crucified without the full story. So as you point out yourself, why is it different, "this particular CGAA thread"?

Those who have worked there (or still do), for pilot #1 and the other two in YWG, know exactly why the moderators are having a hard time "killing it off". It's a form of karma, a variation of the Golden Rule:

"When you have treated countless people like sh$t, you cannot be surprised when great pleasure is taken at your own misfortune." (be it real or perceived!)

Be dismayed if you want at human nature for such schadenfreude, but don't be naive enough to discount it. There is currency to be had when you treat people with dignity and respect, it comes back in spades when inevitably you screw up - the court of public opinion judges you much more kindly. But be a pr$ck, and expect no mercy when you fall on your face. That is EXACTLY what is happening here.

As far as "guilt not yet proven", was the pilot fined because it was a legitimate landing? One of the articles has a pilot quoted as having admitted they "made a mistake". It's fine to be charitable but come on.

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:27 am

Gramps wrote: drag strip: 3800' x 70' vs. TNCA: 9000' x 148'
drag strip: no runway markings, except for the 1/4 mile mark. TNCA: standard runway markings
drag strip: no exit points along it's length. TNCA 4 exit points
drag strip: nearest water is 1.5 miles EAST. TNCA: water almost to the threshold from the WEST.
and the BIG one, TNCA lacks staging lights!

drag strip: lots of rubber laid in 2 neat columns on the sides with clean pavement in the center.

runway: lots of rubber laid on each end and down the center, clean on each side.

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:38 am

I'd still say a lear on a drag strip is better than an airbus at Vernon!!

At least you'll get the lear out of there..

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:48 am

So then show us a picture of the Airbus stuck in Vernon will you?

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:55 am

And what emergency did they have to land at the strip? I haven't read a thing about any emergency and the fact the crew did leave makes that emergency pretty poorly handled. Unless of course there was an Aruban AME on hand to lend a hand! Or was he the Snap-on rep?

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:04 pm

ei ei owe wrote:And what emergency did they have to land at the strip? ?

Something was in his eye, and he opened it up, and ooops, not the airport, my bad...

Flaps30Greenlight · Post by **Flaps30Greenlight** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:51 pm

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:10 am

Mitch,

If it was up to the crew on that airplane we would have the photo's..

Kilo-Kilo · Post by **Kilo-Kilo** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:15 am

Mitch Cronin wrote:So then show us a picture of the Airbus stuck in Vernon will you?

The airbus crew realized they weren't on final for Kelowna in enough time to do a missed approach. However, the student in the c-150 on final in the reciprical direction had to take evasive action upon seeing the pointy end of the jet coming at him. The TSB report summary was in the safety letter sometime last fall, I believe. Apparently the crew wasn't using the FMS available to them as they approached Kelowna and visually missidentified Vernon.

N2 · Post by N2 » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:42 am

I'll show'em I'm gonna land at Walmart!

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:43 am

So, unlike these fella's in the Lear in Aruba, that crew recognized their error before settling down. Completely different story.

...aside from just taking a swipe at the boys from Big Red, there's no reason to have even mentioned it in this thread that I can see.

...and while I'm here... for some of you rather vocal folks who like to lambaste the guys who've made mistakes. Do you ever wonder why it is the more senior, more experienced ones aren't so vocal? It's likely because they know how close they've come to the same mistake, or maybe they've even been right there... or they could be next?
...they know better than to throw salt at those sorts of wounds... Nobody is infallible. Remember that when you screw up. It'll help a bit.