Nationair Crash & Website

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Edelweiss air
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#26 Post by Edelweiss air » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:28 am

That is truely some horrific stuff, how can a company treat people like that, makes me sick :evil:. Sorry about your loss Birddog.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#27 Post by Rockie » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:12 am

From personal experience flying Flight Attendant training flights when she was aboard as a cabin inspector, I can attest to her status as a brainless idiot.

As for Robert Obadia and his kindred brethren Michel LeBlanc, in a perfect world both of them would be in prison. Instead both of them have for years been protected by government friends through Transport Canada. They continue to be an embarrassing stain on our reputation here in Canada.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#28 Post by Cat Driver » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:17 am

From personal experience flying Flight Attendant training flights when she was aboard as a cabin inspector, I can attest to her status as a brainless idiot.
Can "" a n y o n e '' explain to me how people such as this one end up in management in TCCA?

Please , pretty please can someone explain this to me?
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#29 Post by bmc » Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:35 pm

It was hard to read Kent's transcript and the story behind the accident. I'll never forget reading Kent and Aldo were onboard. Incredibly sad.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#30 Post by Cat Driver » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:38 am

Sorry to have demeaned your employer Paul by asking this question.
Cat Driver wrote:
So how high up the ladder of incompetence has this gem risen within the management of TCCA?
You are of course correct that using a persons real name is against the forum rules and we should be very careful in how we make our posts.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#31 Post by ... » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:27 pm

ASL wrote:
What started here as a tribute to a tragic accident in 1991 has degenerated in a slanderous and hateful attack on an individual by name, who was attributed a quote some 17 years ago which may or may not even be factual. Get over it, it was 17 years ago ....
"Get over it"

:smt104

Are you retarded...???

HOW DARE YOU COME ON HERE AND TELL THE FAMILIES AND FRIENDS OF THE VICTIMS OF THE NATIONAIR CRASH ON THIS THREAD TO "GET OVER IT"

....The best thing for you to do is never log in on this site....ever again.

Your presence INSULTS ME!



(I can't believe this sh!t)
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#32 Post by Cat Driver » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:27 pm

Easy does it there I am Birddog, best to not get on the wrong side of someone who works for the regulator as it can get very, very expensive career wise.

Take it from someone who knows.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#33 Post by Strega » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:11 pm

Paul,

I noticed you use your title at TCCA on this site. Is this supposed to make the moderators "cave" to your requests? or to make others think you may or may not know what your talking about?

you have made very innapropriate comments regarding a tradgedy in wich someone (who could be named in this thread or not) made a BIG boo-boo.

My advice (keep in mind it is the membership here that pay your salary) is to go back and write more articles about coffee drinking, Im guessing your rather good at it.

IABD and his lost friends' families deserve more.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#34 Post by ASL » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:17 pm

All I said was that this thread was not being moderated as it should be. The "get over it" comment has nothing to do with the accident itself, but is addressed to the continued libelous attacks on a person, by name, who had little or nothing to do with the accident. That's all.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#35 Post by C23flyer » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:35 pm

ASL/Paul,

The person in question is alleged to have made a misleading and indefensible statement regarding the Nationair crash. While it is true that the source for that comment is not cited anywhere that I can currently find, please trust that in the next few days I will be examining the archives of every major newspaper at the time to find what was clearly a spurious conclusion from a person in a position of authority. An inspector does exercise an enormous amount of power regardless of their rank in management. The individual's name is already public, though certainly here, it must remain hidden.

Your dismissive comment of "get over it" was surprising and disappointing given how reasonable and open you initially presented in another thread. Perhaps your best tactic here was to PM a moderator, rather than get involved in defending one of your own before all the facts were in. There is a perception that this already goes on far too much where TC is concerned.

I'm sure the person in question is a much different, more mature, perhaps wiser individual than 17 years ago. But that doesn't release them from being accountable for previous actions/words. That must make sense to you, doesn't it?
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#36 Post by ASL » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:44 pm

c23flyer... +1
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#37 Post by Strega » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:56 pm

ASL wrote:All I said was that this thread was not being moderated as it should be. The "get over it" comment has nothing to do with the accident itself, but is addressed to the continued libelous attacks on a person, by name, who had little or nothing to do with the accident. That's all.

In whos mind? yours? TCCA? the victims families?

What have you done to help put those responsible for this failing in jail?

(besides writing about coffee?)

whats more important to a bureaucrat, tires that are in good shape, or tires that are in good shape on paper?

Whats more important to a bureaucrat? live persons? or dead persons?

What more important to you Mr ASL. safe aviation? or the illusion of safe aviation?
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#38 Post by Hedley » Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:45 am

best to not get on the wrong side of someone who works for the regulator as it can get very, very expensive career wise
No kidding. The Lord may have said that "vengence is mine"
but clearly he never dealt with Transport.

I really don't mind being attacked for the rest of my career
but it bothers me that my family members are attacked,
too. I'm not sure why my kids have to leave Canada if
they want to fly, but that's just the way it is.

It's interesting that even the Mob won't attack family - children
and parents are off-bounds.

The irony of Transport telling accident victims to
"get over it" is eye-opening.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#39 Post by ASL » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:11 am

My apologies everyone, I certainly did not come here to make a fuss or to disrespect anyone. If I did I am truly sorry and it wont happen again.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#40 Post by Sulako » Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:34 am

I removed the specific name references to the inspector - we generally try not to use specific names if we are talking about someone in a negative light.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#41 Post by Joren » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:59 am

Many thanks to BirdDog for linking the site.

For anyone questioning whether the employee in question did or did not say, I can attest that she did as I heard it with my own two ears.

Much like the comment you hear when a child dies "thank God you have another child", hearing something like that kinda sticks with you.

Someone upthread mentioned wanting to read the report. I have it in digital format somewhere - I'll see if I can find it, and upload it somewhere so others can download it.

Someone else mentioned Aldo being a Flight Attendant. He was listed in the manifest as being a mechanic. I have absolutely no indication that he was an FA at Nationair at either base. From the beginning he was listed as being on board as a mechanic.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#42 Post by bmc » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:02 pm

I listed Aldo as customer service guy on board. Aldo previously worked at Nordair as did I. I was based up north and he was replacement manager for us when we went south. Aldo replaced me on several occasions. He was not a mechanic at Nordair.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#43 Post by wabano » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:31 pm

We used to own that aircraft at the time...

The inside scoop I heard was that
the ground agent was asked by the Captain, in front of witnesses,
to inflate some tires which where too low on nitrogen.

For some reason, avarice or other, he did not...

So the tires overheated on take off and
exploded in the wheel well, severing control cables
and creating a very large hole in the fuselage,
through which many passengers fell off...
(rubber on runway is a sand monkey fabrication)

That had to be one of the most terrible accident you can think of.

George Bachelor had bought this airplane for the price of it's aluminium, about the same you would pay for a used airliner today.

After this, we where never in a hurry to pull up
that long gear handle after take off from a hot or high airport.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#44 Post by CD » Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:49 pm

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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#45 Post by wabano » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:21 am

Thanks for the links...

Our information was that the crew was told that the tires had got
inflated properly, thus their disbelief in tire problems.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#46 Post by ... » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:21 am

Thank you CD.

Everytime I read that report I, and others connected to this including the families of course, we all get very emotionally charged over this. It seems time has no cure to heal these wounds.

Those that were there in 1991 at the old Wardair hangar when the remains of our friends were off loaded in their respective caskets from the crash must remember the distictive door siren going sounding as the doors motioned to close. Even today when I hear such a horn when any door hangar closes, it takes me back to that time. I remember witnessing the heartache on the faces of each family member, which months prior were smiles and laughter at a company Christmas party. There is nothing more devastating than watching a parent bury a child....nothing.

It sickens me that THIS could have all been avoided. Company culture like the one that existed at Nationair still exists today with other companies whether it be 703,704,705. Have we NOT learned anything from example after example after example???

The Keystone pilot that was left out to dry by it's company culture and routine going unquestioned. The example of 'Widow' and her present struggles. There are so many. Company culture.

We ALL have a story, and more often than not....they all have similar parallels.

I have more to state however, this has drained me. I wish everyone safe flying....everyone.

Thanks for reading.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#47 Post by 200hr Wonder » Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:57 am

I think we should all step back and remember that there is NO FLIGHT that we can conduct that is worth risking our lives for. Being unsafe will catch up with us all one day! I was just a youngin in '91 when this happened though I have lost friends in various other aircraft losses, and it is sad to say ALL of them did not have to happen. Fly safe everyone and do not accept or contribute to something that is not absolutely safe. No Flight, No Job is ever worth that.
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#48 Post by V2-OMG! » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:11 pm

I am Birddog wrote: Those that were there in 1991 at the old Wardair hangar when the remains of our friends were off loaded in their respective caskets from the crash must remember the distictive door siren going sounding as the doors motioned to close. Even today when I hear such a horn when any door hangar closes, it takes me back to that time. I remember witnessing the heartache on the faces of each family member, which months prior were smiles and laughter at a company Christmas party. There is nothing more devastating than watching a parent bury a child....nothing.

It sickens me that THIS could have all been avoided. Company culture like the one that existed at Nationair still exists today with other companies whether it be 703,704,705. Have we NOT learned anything from example after example after example???
Birddog, your account of what it was like being at the hangar and the haunt of that closing door siren touched me deeply. I am so sorry for the loss that you feel to this day.
When a tragedy like this was avoidable, that siren remains particularly shrill.

I was intrigued by your story, and the link to the Nationair website. How unfortunate that Canada has its own "Frank Lorenzo."
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#49 Post by C23flyer » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:00 pm

V2,

Did you mean avoidable?
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Re: Nationair Crash & Website

#50 Post by V2-OMG! » Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:20 pm

C23flyer wrote:V2,

Did you mean avoidable?
Thanks C23. Correction done. There was "debris" on keyboard.

(Tongue-in-cheek, and I am not making fun of the tragedy, but was paraphrasing Obadia after the Jeddah crash. What an unconscionable s.o.b. How could TC hire some of his allies?? That is even more unconscionable! )
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