172pilot: No one is saying all the incidents you have listed are made up! However consider this:
WMD was used as the pretext for the invasion of Iraq. No WMD found.
In the days following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, the U.S. Government showed the Saudis satellite photos of Iraqi battalions amassed along the border with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis opened their doors wide to allow U.S. troops in... it later came out that no such battalions existed, the CIA fabricated the evidence to facilitate the process of basing troops in Saudi Arabia.
Go back further in time... Saddam was an ally of the U.S. He just got out of control. Al Qaeda is a name coined by the Americans to describe all these terrorist cells that were primarily funded by Bin Laden. He in turn went to Afghanistan (with the Mujahadeen) when the Russians were waging war there. Oh yeah, the Americans sent the CIA to equip and train the Mujahadeen.
The one and constant truth, never mind whether it is American, Russian, leftist or rightist or other... As long as nations or "people" have designs on other lands to conquer, be it for resources or religion there will always be resistance. Manipulation of facts and truth are used by both sides in order to propagate and intenisfy their positions.
'Plot to blow up planes' foiled
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
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the original tony
- Rank 4
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 8:18 pm
prop2jet
THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!
finally someone sees it for what it is. Yes there are people trying to do harm to the west, but look what "american freedom" has done to the east.
Iraq is much better off now, they have free elections, the american way, yet they die on their way to the polls to vote.
maybe the elections aren't fixed over there, GWB can brief you on that.
as long as the west dictates what should and will be done in the east, there will be attacks on the west, it just so happens that the shoe is now on the other foot, one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist.
why is it right for hundreds of thousands of iraqi civilians to die, and days later a WTC memorial serves a great reminder that such a vicious "unwaranted" attack was made on the US. by the US.
buildings being hit by planes happens everyday overseas, just by bombs luckily..........
no memorial, no condolences, just for their own good i guess.
enough innocent americans, iraqis, canadians, afghanis and the rest have died.
i feel for all innocent involved, regardless of race or religion,
the original tony
THANKYOU!!!!!!!!!!
finally someone sees it for what it is. Yes there are people trying to do harm to the west, but look what "american freedom" has done to the east.
Iraq is much better off now, they have free elections, the american way, yet they die on their way to the polls to vote.
maybe the elections aren't fixed over there, GWB can brief you on that.
as long as the west dictates what should and will be done in the east, there will be attacks on the west, it just so happens that the shoe is now on the other foot, one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist.
why is it right for hundreds of thousands of iraqi civilians to die, and days later a WTC memorial serves a great reminder that such a vicious "unwaranted" attack was made on the US. by the US.
buildings being hit by planes happens everyday overseas, just by bombs luckily..........
no memorial, no condolences, just for their own good i guess.
enough innocent americans, iraqis, canadians, afghanis and the rest have died.
i feel for all innocent involved, regardless of race or religion,
the original tony
If some events are legitimate terror attacks, how can we say or assume the latest event was a hoax? If some are legit, and supposedly some are not... how do you know the difference? Based on some political popularity... I'd like to see a formal study with more than 2 or 3 events supporting this theory of timing.
What we should focus on is probability. What is the probability of fanatics trying to strike again like Richard Reid attempted? I think the odds are quite high... so to say someone must have voted for Harper or supports Bush just because they consider this is a legitimate terror plot is nothing but absurd. I don't support Bush but I take the current state of world conflict seriously.
What we should focus on is probability. What is the probability of fanatics trying to strike again like Richard Reid attempted? I think the odds are quite high... so to say someone must have voted for Harper or supports Bush just because they consider this is a legitimate terror plot is nothing but absurd. I don't support Bush but I take the current state of world conflict seriously.
I think the focus should be more direct at minding ones own backyard before dictating to others how their's should be. Sure you can argue that what takes place overseas has or may have an impact of the safety and security of your home country, however where did it all begin???
For generations civilizations have had their conquests...and for generations to come humanity will likely face the repeat of history until someday there is nothing left to conquer.
Sadly, history has taught many lessons, the problem is obvious, no one learns from them.
For generations civilizations have had their conquests...and for generations to come humanity will likely face the repeat of history until someday there is nothing left to conquer.
Sadly, history has taught many lessons, the problem is obvious, no one learns from them.
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mellow_pilot
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:04 am
- Location: Pilot Purgatory
Not formal, but here's a short list of governments creating a false crisis to obtain objectives, be they political or otherwise.172pilot wrote: I'd like to see a formal study with more than 2 or 3 events supporting this theory of timing.
-German invasion of Czechoslovakia 1938, under the pretext of defending ethnic Germans (orchestrated by political parties in both countries)
-Nazi scapegoating of Jews in the 30s
-Japanese invasion of Korea, China, South Pacific (pretext of protecting asian culture from western interference)
-Suez Canal Crisis (France, Britain and Israel collaborated in order to take out the Egyptian president)
-Soviet occupation/garrisonning of various Warsaw pact countries throught the 40s, 50s.
Terrorism has become the new pretext, but the setup is the same. Create a crisis to make people fearful. Then take away freedoms while claiming to defend the people (which is so ironic it hurts). I know, I know... I'm being paranoid, or leftist, or burring my head in the sand, or some other tired cliché. Think for yourselves people. Don't take politics or the news at face value.
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
Speaks to your example…and expands on it…
The Real Global Virus
The plague of Islamism keeps on spreading.
By Victor Davis Hanson
November 04, 2005, 8:40 a.m.
Article from the National Review
“Perhaps—but they should at least recall the eerie resemblance of our dilemma to the spread of global fascism in the late 1930s.
At first few saw any real connection between the ruthless annexation of Manchuria by Japanese militarists, or Mussolini’s brutal invasion of Ethiopia, or the systematic aggrandizement of Eastern-European territory by Hitler. China was a long way from Abyssinia, itself far from Poland. How could a white-supremacist Nazi have anything in common with a racially-chauvinist Japanese or an Italian fascist proclaiming himself the new imperial Roman?
In response, the League of Nations dithered and imploded (sound familiar?). Rightist American isolationists (they’re back) assured us that fascism abroad was none of our business or that there were conspiracies afoot by Jews to have us do their dirty work. Leftists were only galvanized when Hitler finally turned on Stalin (perhaps we have to wait for Osama to attack Venezuela or Cuba to get the Left involved). Abroad even members of the British royal family were openly sympathetic to German grievances (cf. Prince Charles’s silence about Iran’s promise to wipe out Israel, but his puerile Edward VIII-like lectures to Americans about a misunderstood Islam). French appeasement was such that even the most humiliating concession was deemed preferable to the horrors of World War I (no comment needed).”
LINK: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Zj ... A4NzM5OTc=
The Real Global Virus
The plague of Islamism keeps on spreading.
By Victor Davis Hanson
November 04, 2005, 8:40 a.m.
Article from the National Review
“Perhaps—but they should at least recall the eerie resemblance of our dilemma to the spread of global fascism in the late 1930s.
At first few saw any real connection between the ruthless annexation of Manchuria by Japanese militarists, or Mussolini’s brutal invasion of Ethiopia, or the systematic aggrandizement of Eastern-European territory by Hitler. China was a long way from Abyssinia, itself far from Poland. How could a white-supremacist Nazi have anything in common with a racially-chauvinist Japanese or an Italian fascist proclaiming himself the new imperial Roman?
In response, the League of Nations dithered and imploded (sound familiar?). Rightist American isolationists (they’re back) assured us that fascism abroad was none of our business or that there were conspiracies afoot by Jews to have us do their dirty work. Leftists were only galvanized when Hitler finally turned on Stalin (perhaps we have to wait for Osama to attack Venezuela or Cuba to get the Left involved). Abroad even members of the British royal family were openly sympathetic to German grievances (cf. Prince Charles’s silence about Iran’s promise to wipe out Israel, but his puerile Edward VIII-like lectures to Americans about a misunderstood Islam). French appeasement was such that even the most humiliating concession was deemed preferable to the horrors of World War I (no comment needed).”
LINK: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Zj ... A4NzM5OTc=
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gonefishin'
- Rank 2
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- Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:59 pm
- Location: CAW3
oil was getting too expensive in the US so they needed a way to bring the price back down.
why will checking our carry on be any safer? 90% of checked baggage is not screened, so I'm not sure how this helps?
and am I really sure that those on the plane sitting beside me and my 18 month old son will appreciate the fact that I cannot bring diapers, so that dump he just took will be smelling great after brewing for 4 hours.
3100ish were killed on 911, how many are we up to now in this useless Iraq war 5000+?
good job Dubya.
why will checking our carry on be any safer? 90% of checked baggage is not screened, so I'm not sure how this helps?
and am I really sure that those on the plane sitting beside me and my 18 month old son will appreciate the fact that I cannot bring diapers, so that dump he just took will be smelling great after brewing for 4 hours.
3100ish were killed on 911, how many are we up to now in this useless Iraq war 5000+?
good job Dubya.
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mellow_pilot
- Rank 10
- Posts: 2119
- Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:04 am
- Location: Pilot Purgatory
Speedbird Junior....
"Ask yourselves what purpose it serves to release this information in such a dramatic way into the mainstream media? Hundreds of "terror plots" get "foiled" every year, and yet the public are blissfully unaware. Why? Because there is no political value in telling them about it. "
man, you took my words...ding it! I mean, how much bs can someone take from cnn/bbc and others....I mean, they uncover this plan, and geez guys, let us all tell you how we did it!????
There was a poll somewhere conducted on the US citizens, on wether Iraq has weapons of mass destruction....and after constant 'bombardment' by news agencies, up to 50% of people belive this LIE, that is so obvious since the war started....but guess what? The propaganda worked, and people started believing a LIE to feel better about the shit and gilt that Irag war is causing daily!
So, yes, please, they can go ahead and feed me this whole "water bottle" theory, but at least I am not a sheep who follows the herd. I just wonder whats next......naked passengers in diapers and swim hats, with only a passport in a plastic bag
I better go for some tanning session! 
"Ask yourselves what purpose it serves to release this information in such a dramatic way into the mainstream media? Hundreds of "terror plots" get "foiled" every year, and yet the public are blissfully unaware. Why? Because there is no political value in telling them about it. "
man, you took my words...ding it! I mean, how much bs can someone take from cnn/bbc and others....I mean, they uncover this plan, and geez guys, let us all tell you how we did it!????
There was a poll somewhere conducted on the US citizens, on wether Iraq has weapons of mass destruction....and after constant 'bombardment' by news agencies, up to 50% of people belive this LIE, that is so obvious since the war started....but guess what? The propaganda worked, and people started believing a LIE to feel better about the shit and gilt that Irag war is causing daily!
So, yes, please, they can go ahead and feed me this whole "water bottle" theory, but at least I am not a sheep who follows the herd. I just wonder whats next......naked passengers in diapers and swim hats, with only a passport in a plastic bag
I better go for some tanning session! 
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Dust Devil
- Rank 11
- Posts: 4027
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:55 am
- Location: Riderville
Don't forget the moon landing. that was a CIA hoax as well wasn't it?mellow_pilot wrote: Not formal, but here's a short list of governments creating a false crisis to obtain objectives, be they political or otherwise.
-German invasion of Czechoslovakia 1938, under the pretext of defending ethnic Germans (orchestrated by political parties in both countries)
-Nazi scapegoating of Jews in the 30s
-Japanese invasion of Korea, China, South Pacific (pretext of protecting asian culture from western interference)
-Suez Canal Crisis (France, Britain and Israel collaborated in order to take out the Egyptian president)
-Soviet occupation/garrisonning of various Warsaw pact countries throught the 40s, 50s.
hehehe....fogghorn wrote:LIQUID TERROR!!!!! BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID
http://infowars.net/articles/August2006 ... liquid.htm
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. ._
- Top Poster
- Posts: 7374
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- Location: Cowering in my little room because the Water Cooler is locked.
- Contact:
http://icasualties.org/oif/BY_DOD.aspxgonefishin' wrote:oil was getting too expensive in the US so they needed a way to bring the price back down.
why will checking our carry on be any safer? 90% of checked baggage is not screened, so I'm not sure how this helps?
and am I really sure that those on the plane sitting beside me and my 18 month old son will appreciate the fact that I cannot bring diapers, so that dump he just took will be smelling great after brewing for 4 hours.
3100ish were killed on 911, how many are we up to now in this useless Iraq war 5000+?
good job Dubya.
http://icasualties.org/oif_a/CasualtyTrends.htm
shoe x-rays useless...
...but lets do them anyways:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/08/15/Te ... index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/08/15/Te ... index.html
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The government's new order that all airline passengers put their shoes through X-ray machines won't help screeners find a liquid or gel that can be used as a bomb.
The machines are unable to detect explosives, according to a Homeland Security report on aviation screening recently obtained by The Associated Press.
The Transportation Security Administration ordered the shoe-scanning requirement as it fine-tunes new security procedures.
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niss
- Top Poster
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- Location: I'm a CPL trapped in a PPL's Body.
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When I went to Israel on El Al two years ago, everything I had and of course my body (hands, cloths, etc) were run through a machine that looked for explosive chemicals.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2097352.stm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/200 ... l-usat.htm
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meas ... .security/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2097352.stm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/200 ... l-usat.htm
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meas ... .security/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Yea, but there's a big difference between checking for chemical emmisions from explosives, which works for alot of them, and looking for them on an x-ray, which doesn't. Interviewing passengers prior to boarding, and having armed, uniformed air marshalls on every flight also improves security. El-Al has security that works, in part because they need it for security reasons rather than political ones, and so they concentrate on effective security measures, rather than feel good crap.
