L-188 three engine take-off!!

[linecrew]

Not sure what the point of this was. Seems like a bit of tempting fate.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_ ... -6763.html

[goldeneagle]

Not sure what the point of this was. Seems like a bit of tempting fate.

Most large 4 engine aircraft have a section in the hallowed AFM that describes the conditions required to permit a 3 engine takeoff. It's a practise typically used to ferry an airframe from a remote location to a maintanence base, for the specific purpose of replacing an engine. Airframes with 8 engines will actually have procedures for the dreaded 6 engine takeoff as well, a takeoff with 2 offline. There are normally lots of abnormal weight and runway requirements, and likely the crew needs to be qualified for the procedure as well, but, it's not really that big of a deal.

If you are a real trivia buff, is it possible to find a video on the net of a 747 doing a 5 engine takeoff ? Yes, 5, and I've seen it, I've even rode in one that had 5 engines once. There is a hardpoint inboard of the number 3, onto which an engine can be attached, specifically for the purpose of ferrying engines between bases. Ofc, the 5th engine is just hanging there, not actually wired and plumbed into the airplane. It does look pretty cool tho.

[linecrew]

Yeah, I've seen that before. Pretty neat idea.

[goldeneagle]

Yeah, I've seen that before. Pretty neat idea.

Interesting, I was sure when I saw it (from a seat inside), it was mounted on the other side. Ah well, doesn't matter, that was a few years ago.

[sprucemonkey]

Prob for mtc. In the Da50 and 900, there is a section that describes in detail how to perform a 2 engine takeoff. Not sure if I'd attempt it, but one of my instructors has and said it wasn't a big deal.

[CYOX]

Not sure what the point of this was. Seems like a bit of tempting fate.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_ ... -6763.html

New SOP for Buffalo Airways, of course Joe will have to reduce the payload

[gr8gazu]

Prob for mtc. In the Da50 and 900, there is a section that describes in detail how to perform a 2 engine takeoff. Not sure if I'd attempt it, but one of my instructors has and said it wasn't a big deal.

BTDT and it was no big deal.

[ez4u2say]

Many many years ago a DC8-63 series aircraft outboard engine struck a compacted snow bank on taxiing off an extremely slipery runway 06R in YUL. On arriving at the gate it was noted that the engine had been damaged and that in turn did some damage to the spar. The engine was totally removed and the aircraft was ferried by the airline company check captain with the remaining 3 engines to a Douglas repair base in the USA...yep a 3 engine DC8..then there was the time when a DC10-30 series was ferried from I believe South America to either LAX or YVR (can't recall too long ago) on operative 2 engines. This was done by Douglas crew not the airline. It had many restrictions...altitude, terain and route restrictions etc etc. I believe that the inoperative engine was used for the t/o and then shut down. And it was quite comon for the airline to 5th pod a spare engine overhauled or requiring overhaul to YUL or YVR or overseas on a revenue flight. How do I know...I was there... now retired and lovin it....

[twotter]

Yup, not a biggy.. I've seen Dash 7's, 146's, L-10's all ferried with one mill not working.. SOP.. I got offered to do it with a -6 one day but declined.. Didn't think it would be worth the cut in pay for flying a single..

[C-GPFG]

Here's a MD-11 two engine take-off report that didn't go so well...

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_ ... 002&akey=1

[pelmet]

[quote="CYOX"][quote="linecrew"]

[url]http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_ ... -6763.html[/url][/quote]
New SOP for Buffalo Airways, of course Joe will have to reduce the payload [/quote]

Only to max gross.

[East Coast Cam]

I couldn't really tell, but how much right rudder was he giving during take off and climb?

[xsbank]

A three-engine ferry is a non-event if all the sops are done correctly. What you have to be VERY careful of is that you have all the paperwork done carefully. Permits, permissions etc. Have them all in your hand and do not accept verbal assurances as your a/c does not have a C of A!

[BusDriver]

L-1011's would do the 2 engine ferry no problem, at a light gtow mind you.

[BigB]

I couldn't really tell, but how much right rudder was he giving during take off and climb?

It's a function of VMCG. A light enough GTOW is needed for this type of maneuver. Initially, power on engines 2&3 are brought up to the specified SHP setting. Once rudder authority is gained during the T/O roll, power is slowly brought up on # 4, of course always with some margin of safety to play with. One should never get to the point of having to use ALL of the aircrafts rudder authority to maintain diectional control. If all SOP's are followed, a 3 engine ferry should be no problem.

[Longtimer]

When the DC8s were the king of the skys, 5th pod operations were common.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0457505&size=M

[ez4u2say]

Hey there Longtimer
Boy, does that picture bring back memories, only I also have a shot when CP Air was Canadian Pacific Airlines..I believe there were only 2 or 3 in the fleet which were set up with the hardware attachments required to attach the 5th pod. Sure liked that colour scheme..they stood out like a sore thumb no matter which airport you were at...no problem finding the gate...

[Edo]

This 5th pod thing is cool, never seen it before

Do any "newer" airlines have this option? Or are there enought combi / freighter option now that its not worth the drag.

And could you still do this on a revenue flight - i can just imagine the paper work on that one.

[ez4u2say]

Edo

We only did them on scheduled passenger flights. (DC8 equipment) If the overhauled engine (5th pod) was required at one of our sked destinations that's how it got there. The unserviceable engine was usually allready removed from the mechanical aircraft and was ready to be attached for the return flight to it's overhaul base. I recall YUL was a great place for a quick engine change. Great bunch of mechanics there. The drag/extra fuel etc was minimal and certainly was offset by the high price of shipping it by a cargo carrier. Most carriers have agreements with other carriers when it comes to obtaining spare parts during mechanicals so it is probably not as common now. I never saw 5th poding again during the later years with the airline.

[DC6driver]

On the DC6 in the initial captain training we do a 3 engine t/o into a 2 engine out same side landing. "Dead" engine at idle. SOP's, and a ferry permit reqd. Symetrical engines brought to full power on the brakes, and then 3rd brought to power on the roll. Takes a lot of tiller to hold straight.

[Donald]

On the three engine L188 video it looks like the feathered engine has the blades in an "X" configuration. Does this lower drag? I seem to recall watching a military video about the Aurora and for long-range patrols they would shut one down and make sure the blades were in an "X".

[Forestdump]

There is a video that shows up at CRM courses showing an Argentinian performing the old L-188 single engine go-around. He just about pulled it off too.