Question about Icing

Jimmy Mack · Post by **Jimmy Mack** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:06 pm

Hi all,

I am going to be flying a single engine low wing piper in the next 2 weeks to various locales in Northern Alberta. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for potential actions to be taken on inadvertant flight into icing?

Is it better to decend? To turn around right away (fuel permitting)? Keep going?

I know it's very abstract to try to give advice without particular facts, but I'm just looking for general pointers.

Thanks,
JM

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:18 pm

The best tip Pre-flight pre-flight pre-flight.

Barring an unforseen weather buildup, stay out of cloud if you can (VFr or IFR?) if you have ice buildup descent only works if its actually warmer lower, and if IFR can prove to cause other problems.

If you encounter ice, without de-icing gear, my suggestion would be find a place to land ASAP.

Jimmy Mack · Post by **Jimmy Mack** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:26 pm

Sorry I did not clarify, VFR only, no flight into cloud.

And I'm planning a thorough preflight, unfortunately I fly in parts of the world that don't have reliable weather forcasts.

Thanks again

JM

BlueSkies12 · Post by **BlueSkies12** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:39 pm

If you're flying VFR then you should stay VMC. Any flight into ice would be flight into cloud. Turn around if you inadvertently fly into cloud.

jjj · Post by **jjj** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:55 pm

Whatever ya got for a defogger or windshield heat or cabin heat - whatever - keep'er cranked at the window when you get close to any icing conditions. Most airplanes will do OK with ice on the wings - but most aren't so great when you can't see outside to land etc....

jjj

Front. · Post by **Front.** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:22 am

just fly VFR Not over the top and icing won't be a factor....

McPhoo · Post by **McPhoo** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:39 am

I'm with everyone else here in stating the obvious. You can't get iced up if you don't fly into the clouds. Make a 180 and know when nature has ya licked. Don't be the hero and try to push. DO pay attention to the likelyhood of carb ice. That can sneek up on ya and give your ticker a jump!

Play safe

P.S. If your experiance level is low and/or the equipment you have to use is not up to the task, I have to say that November isn't always the best time to be planing adventures in the sky. I know, I learned the hard way! When winter has a tighter grip on the land, the weather improves a lot.

square · Post by **square** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:08 am

check your OAT if it rains and be scared if it's below 0

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:02 am

Beware the limited vis in winter (anytime it's cold really) too... you can find yourself goign from 5 miles of crappy vis to in cloud pretty quick. The old 180 saved my bacon twice in one flight. If ever any doubt, land. So what if you're stuck in butt-f---k nowhere for a day or two. Atleast you'll be able to tell the story.

As for the climb/descent, it all depends on what kind of system, how powerful the airplane is, rate of accretion, etc etc... with the 180, you know for SURE that it was clear where you came from a second ago. Even if you have to land off-field, still better that groping aroung in-cloud with no IFR experience hoping for things to go your way.

bronson · Post by **bronson** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:46 am

2 things about icing, if you're not sure it's above freezing below you, CLIMB...you can always descend even with a load of ice
you can get ice in clear air ( and I have) but it is rare, once for me in 30 odd years

dangerous · Post by **dangerous** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:55 am

mellow_pilot wrote:The old 180 saved my bacon twice in one flight.

Two 180's? So you basically just kept going in your original direction!

Longtimer · Post by **Longtimer** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:18 am

Jimmy Mack wrote:Hi all,

I am going to be flying a single engine low wing piper in the next 2 weeks to various locales in Northern Alberta. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for potential actions to be taken on inadvertant flight into icing?

Is it better to decend? To turn around right away (fuel permitting)? Keep going?

I know it's very abstract to try to give advice without particular facts, but I'm just looking for general pointers.

Thanks,
JM

Perhaps this will be of interest. http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/comme ... 0r_att.htm

AEROMONKEY · Post by **AEROMONKEY** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:00 pm

ok...i'm not a pilot so i'm not sure what's safe what isn't....we had a Cessna (206) in a few days ago....he was flying IFR . after he shut down i noticed a light layer of ice in the leading edge of the wing...the strut...the gear and the tail....pilot just knocked it off took his fuel and off he went. is that the best kind of weather for a 206?

Over the Horn · Post by **Over the Horn** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:20 pm

Watch out for the pineapple express ( lots of warm moist air from the pacific) in the spring and fall ( have seen it in the winter but not that often) it has a tendency to bring freezing rain to the northwest corner of the province on the B.C. & NWT. borders. As for any other pointers I think they've bean well covered by the other post's.

The Other Kind · Post by **The Other Kind** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:51 pm

Never ever believe that you won't pick up ice unless you are in IMC. I've flown more than a few hours in the north I've loaded and a/c with ice many times while maintaining legal VFR. Look at your OAT and steer around areas of falling precip - particularly rain if your OAT is at or below freezing. The good news is that on most VFR days you can see these pockets of precip and visually maneuver around them. Snow showers aren't as bad in terms of airframe icing - usually just some light rime, but the forward vis can easily drop to zero and you'll be on the gauges.

Best advice I can give is check wx, call stations along the route before departure to check conditions and always have an out.

Have fun and be sure to post pictures - some of us don't get to have interesting trips like that anymore.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:24 pm

AEROMONKEY wrote:ok...i'm not a pilot so i'm not sure what's safe what isn't....we had a Cessna (206) in a few days ago....he was flying IFR . after he shut down i noticed a light layer of ice in the leading edge of the wing...the strut...the gear and the tail....pilot just knocked it off took his fuel and off he went. is that the best kind of weather for a 206?

I've never seen anywhere written that this form of de-icing is legal, while I know everyone does it, there are approved standards for de-icing/anti-icing an airplane, while I can understand removing a light clear ice by hand may work, you also can miss a lot of it as it can be very hard to detect, especially on a painted surface.

Best bet, either throw it in a hanger and let it melt and dry it off, or get properly de-iced if you're in that much of a hurry.

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:27 pm

Oh and JM, another tip, pack yourself a decent 1-2 day survival kit in case god forbid you have to setdown in the middle of the bush somewhere, being warm and having some food and water could save your butt if you're stuck having to put down to avoid crashing!

Oh and like we say in PEI, "Land with the Potato Ruts, not against them!"

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:26 pm

Howie wrote:Watch out for the pineapple express ( lots of warm moist air from the pacific) in the spring and fall ( have seen it in the winter but not that often) it has a tendency to bring freezing rain to the northwest corner of the province on the B.C. & NWT. borders. As for any other pointers I think they've bean well covered by the other post's.

Good call. Earlier this weeek (sunday?) there was light to moderate freezing precip in the forecast for Whitecourt, Peace River, Slave Lake, Ft StJohn, and Ft Nelson I believe. Then it changed to a sigmet for severe clear icing in freezing rain NE of Fort St John going SE ward to Slave Lake.

Make sure you read that portion in the GFA of Icing, turbulence and freezing level. Usually icing in cloud is rare in the low levels since the air is soo cold and there isn't a great deal of water around to make the air humid. Remember to look at the sigmets.

Still this winter's been exceptionally moist and with the easterly flow down low and westerly aloft the wx has been strange. This is a good year to exercise great prudence when dealing with potential freezing rain and icing conditions.

Look out for warm air aloft, especially when these fast moving fronts rip through. Monday I had an encounter with moderate clear ice through 17 000' in the tops of some Tcu's and had to divert, and later that day we saw a fully developped winter Cb topped at over 21 000'.

Read the forecast, call FSS hourly en-route for wx updates, and ask centre for pireps ahead of your route. As already stated if you get into even trace amounts of ice, get the fuk out as fast as possible.

Cheers, CJ.

Shady McSly · Post by **Shady McSly** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:58 pm

Always do your best.

....I got nothing...

Jimmy Mack · Post by **Jimmy Mack** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 12:09 am

Hey all

thanks for the great feedback, it's really helpful.

I've hit ice before but I was in very marginal weather and it accumulated quickly, was out of cloud but flying through a snow shower. The old 180 helped that time.

Thanks again and fly safe

JM

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