Question for the chopper guys

Idriveplane · Post by **Idriveplane** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:41 pm

Just wondering why most chopper drivers wear helmets? Not knockin you guys, just geniuenly curious

gr8gazu · Post by **gr8gazu** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:24 pm

Probably because an autorotation into the trees is very survivable without head injury. Just a guess though as I have only ridden not flown. Maybe ask in the helicopter forum if you want a serious answer...

Vref plus 10 · Post by **Vref plus 10** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:33 pm

Well, the chances of a roll-over are there. All it takes is a skid to catch, or not come out of the snow... and it's on it's side. though it's not super high, but it's definetly there. And, if the machine rolls over the direction the blades are turning, the blades have a good chance of coming thru the cabin (close, or if not right on your head. of course, if it gets your neck... game over.).

- if your used a long line or anything with the door off. debris could come into the cabin.

-say you do put it in the trees, or have a sudden impact, your head is going to end up in the dash (not that it isn't in fixed wing), or on the stick. so if you have the visor down, it could save your face. helicopter impacts are usually more vertical, compared to with forward speed. so, generally less impact force, but then the rotors spin it around and destroy whatever is left.

it's generally just a safety item, some guys don't wear them. lots of guys do.

the helmet itself can take quite an impact too. a buddy of mine has seen a helmet from a war, the pilot was shot at, the bullet missed his head, but caught the inside of the helmet. the bullet didn't exit the helmet. it wrapped around and fell out the other side. sounds pretty made up, but you never know.

the helmets are able to take an impact of a shot gun too. (seen it the helmet after a demo).

there ya go. could only imagine the look on a passengers face when the pilots put on their helmets in a beech 1900!!! that would be priceless.

anybody else?

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:45 pm

Vref plus 10 wrote: the helmet itself can take quite an impact too. a buddy of mine has seen a helmet from a war, the pilot was shot at, the bullet missed his head, but caught the inside of the helmet. the bullet didn't exit the helmet. it wrapped around and fell out the other side. sounds pretty made up, but you never know.

the helmets are able to take an impact of a shot gun too.

Thats funny, that story comes from a book called Chicken Hawk. Good book.
Its about a NAM Heli-pilot.

It is asafety thing. I am pretty sure there would be a few fixed-wing bush pilots still alive if they had one on.
Alot of the spay pilots use them.

Lurch · Post by **Lurch** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:11 pm

2milefinal wrote:
Vref plus 10 wrote: the helmet itself can take quite an impact too. a buddy of mine has seen a helmet from a war, the pilot was shot at, the bullet missed his head, but caught the inside of the helmet. the bullet didn't exit the helmet. it wrapped around and fell out the other side. sounds pretty made up, but you never know.

the helmets are able to take an impact of a shot gun too.
Thats funny, that story comes from a book called Chicken Hawk. Good book.
Its about a NAM Heli-pilot.

It is asafety thing. I am pretty sure there would be a few fixed-wing bush pilots still alive if they had one on.
Alot of the spay pilots use them.

I know a survey FW Pilot that wears them

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:34 pm

I think spray plane pilots have to wear a helmet. It's the law. Is it not the same for helicopters?

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:22 pm

oldtimer wrote:I think spray plane pilots have to wear a helmet. It's the law. Is it not the same for helicopters?

There are no laws to wear a helmet in any machine, that I can recall.

Water off · Post by **Water off** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:30 pm

Requirement for Mil Spec helmets are a POH limitation for the Air Tractor.

nacho · Post by **nacho** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:32 pm

All Ag Pilots do wear helmets. One would have to be a very stupid to not wear one in this line of work.
Have seen that kind of pilot in South America, flying an $ 800.000 machine and nothing but a headset....go figure.

The Mole · Post by **The Mole** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 11:15 pm

A head injury is a horrible thing. After seeing a cessan seat belt and the huge dash to splatter ones face on. I can't believe more fixed wings don't wear them. 1000$ seems a small price to pay. I understand why the jet guys don't. Surviving a crash at 500mph why prolong the pain and just get it over with.. And who gives F&*& about what the passengers think you can always get more of them.

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:27 am

Probably a stupid question but, what are the possibilities of surviving a chopper engine failure?

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:06 am

Lurch wrote:
2milefinal wrote:
Vref plus 10 wrote: the helmet itself can take quite an impact too. a buddy of mine has seen a helmet from a war, the pilot was shot at, the bullet missed his head, but caught the inside of the helmet. the bullet didn't exit the helmet. it wrapped around and fell out the other side. sounds pretty made up, but you never know.

the helmets are able to take an impact of a shot gun too.
Thats funny, that story comes from a book called Chicken Hawk. Good book.
Its about a NAM Heli-pilot.

It is asafety thing. I am pretty sure there would be a few fixed-wing bush pilots still alive if they had one on.
Alot of the spay pilots use them.

I know a survey FW Pilot that wears them

Even funnier...I know of an ultralight instructor who wears one!

No kidding!

monkeyspankmasterflex · Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:17 am

Probably a stupid question but, what are the possibilities of surviving a chopper engine failure?

Pretty good...

http://www.cybercom.net/~copters/pilot/ ... ation.html

sky's the limit · Post by **sky's the limit** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:39 am

Idriveplane,

The main reason we wear helmets, is the side impact component of a helicopter crash, and the fact that the inertia in a rotary winged a/c is considerable. The U.S. military did the original study in survivability of crashes in rotary wing a/c, and the stats are VERY revealing. Off the top of my head, there is something like a 75% greater chance of living through an accident while wearing an approved bucket.

Having flown both FW and RW, I look at it this way. I would WAY rather have a regular engine failure in a single engine helicopter than an airplane - hands down. Especially over unhelpful terrain. In cruise flight, at any reasonable altitude, a successful Auto-rotation is not only possible, but most probable, we do many every year in recurrent training, and they are not hard. "Successful" meaning a landing with little or zero airspeed, and staying upright, not really the case in an airplane.

The unfortunate part about engine failures for most of us in rotary, is that we are rarely "in cruise" at 500+ft. I for one, am usually either low and slow(also bad in an airplane), or on the end of a long line very slow or stopped, both poor places for an engine failure to occur for number of reason I won't go into. When that "successful" Auto is not possible, the hit will be much harder, and the machine will almost certainly roll one direction or the other. This causes a nasty impact on the door/airframe, and once the blades impact the ground, the accident gets considerably more violent, with the pilot being thrown around accordingly. In two bladed systems, like the Bell 206, 204, 205, 212 etc, there is a chance the blades will impact the cabin as well, this is generally not the case in multi-bladed rotor systems like the Hughes 500, ASTAR series, and most modern designs.

So, I ALWAYS wear my lid, test flights, training flights, long lining, photography/movie flights, and even on the odd tour - I really don't give a shit what the pax think. I did a VIP tour a week before I left for Asia, and they were VERY rich, well dressed big wigs, who all saw me in my helmet - no questions asked.

Hope that helps,

STL

PS, helmets designed for FW a/c are very different than those for RW a/c, there is no side impact crushable structure in the FW models, so they are not suitable for RW use.

2milefinal · Post by **2milefinal** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:51 am

......

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 10:17 am

monkeyspankmasterflex wrote:
Probably a stupid question but, what are the possibilities of surviving a chopper engine failure?
Pretty good...

http://www.cybercom.net/~copters/pilot/ ... ation.html

Monkeyspanxmasterflex,

LMAO... Love the name. Thanks for the link you provided. Good information. Previously, I had this kinda retarded idea that they just fall out of the sky like a rock.

rotorfloat · Post by **rotorfloat** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:36 pm

There's a few decent autos on youtube.

I shouldn't just say decent, the first one below is in an R22, and it is very well done. They aren't the most forgiving machines to do full touchdown autorotations.

He even demos a 0 airspeed auto for a bit, raising the nose and descending vertically. He then tucks the nose down and regains speed to flare and land.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwZlHHQofNI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgxHJyvOniI

GF, they do still kinda fall like a rock...in a stabilised auto, the ROD is around 2000fpm. The 2nd video, filmed from the ground gives a good idea.

I bet this guy was glad he was wearing a helmet, even if it may be a motorcycle helmet.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8694cd303a&p=1

I wear my bucket all the time. I feel naked without it, and it's more comfortable than a headset, imo.

hoptwoit · Post by **hoptwoit** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:23 pm

Even funnier...I know of an ultralight instructor who wears one! No kidding!

Helmets must be worn by occupants of Basic Ultralights in Canada it's the law.

Red Line · Post by **Red Line** » Sun Nov 26, 2006 2:50 pm

One of my recent passengers was a chopper pilot headed home. He sat in the back and wore his helmat. I'm sure it was for the noise cancelling. I hope.

ch135146 · Post by **ch135146** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:01 pm

sky's the limit wrote:When that "successful" Auto is not possible, the hit will be much harder, and the machine will almost certainly roll one direction or the other. This causes a nasty impact on the door/airframe, and once the blades impact the ground, the accident gets considerably more violent, with the pilot being thrown around accordingly. In two bladed systems, like the Bell 206, 204, 205, 212 etc, there is a chance the blades will impact the cabin as well, this is generally not the case in multi-bladed rotor systems like the Hughes 500, ASTAR series, and most modern designs.

Been there. When we hit the ground in a 212, the retreating blade dug in to the dirt, and the main transmission was torn from it's mounts. The rotor head entered the cockpit, and my helmet was shattered by the stab bar. Lived to tell about it mostly due to the brain bucket.

STL - always enjoy your posts.

Steve

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:36 pm

Yet another reason not to fly choppers!!!

Helicopter;
(he-low-copp-tir)

N. A flying machine consisting of several hundred pounds of metal fatigue circiling an oil leak.

Syn. deathtrap, uglyness incarnate, insanity made manifest.

monkeyspankmasterflex · Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:14 pm

Yet another reason not to fly choppers!!!

Weren't you planning on joining the military?

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:21 pm

What, and that means I can't make chopper jokes? If I become a fling-winger, I'll make fun of the plankers... It'll all work out!

Golden Flyer · Post by **Golden Flyer** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:20 pm

mellow_pilot wrote:Yet another reason not to fly choppers!!!

Helicopter;
(he-low-copp-tir)

N. A flying machine consisting of several hundred pounds of metal fatigue circiling an oil leak.

Syn. deathtrap, uglyness incarnate, insanity made manifest.

LOL... Niceeee. Couldn't put it an better. I actually, like choppers... Love to see them fly. I can't stay calm when in one though. Two things I hate:
1. Staying still in the sky (Hovering)
2. I HATE things that move slow in the sky... (C-150)

A long while back during my first flight, I felt like opening the door and walking out of the 150. We were cruising and my eyes were focused on the same point for so long that it drove me NUTS!

ch135146 · Post by **ch135146** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:42 pm

Golden Flyer wrote:... I felt like opening the door and walking out of the 150.

Be sure to bring that up at your next medical.