1900 non-2 crew?
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog
-
wha happen
- Rank 8
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:39 am
1900 non-2 crew?
I heard a rumour that 1900's are not required to be run two crew in a cargo configuration... any truth to this or is it just a state side rule?
Its the way she goes boys, its the way she goes.
Lets sacrifice him to the crops.
Lets sacrifice him to the crops.
-
It's the Pitts
- Rank 2
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 1:51 pm
- Location: West of Ontario
-
AEROMONKEY
- Rank 5
- Posts: 395
- Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 7:19 pm
- Location: Thunder Bay
TC lists A BE02 (beech 1900*) as two a minmum of two crew.redbeard wrote:actually the D model can be flown single pilot and a few operators do run them that way on occaision
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regse ... t42102.htm
I'm not sure how you'd manage to sneak around that one?
I also found this which very clearly states that the 1900 is two crew in canada.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/gener ... el/cop.htm
Note 2: Canada designates the Beech 1900 Commuter as a minimum flight crew of 2. The FAA designates the same aeroplane as a minimum flight crew of 1.
1900 operators in Canada can operate single crew for ferry flights and I suppose a private operator could - but no one privately operates a 1900, so ferry flights - that's it.ahramin wrote:How would 604 change the type certificate?
You will never live long enough to know it all, so quit being anal about it..
-
Kelowna Pilot
- Rank 6
- Posts: 481
- Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:48 am
I could never figure this out...
A B1900 is probably a lot more difficult to fly and "labor intensive" than a highly automated Airbus.
Yet you can fly the 1900 solo but you can't the airbus.
Is it just because you have a lot of pax in the back that the airbus must be flown with two pilots?
A B1900 is probably a lot more difficult to fly and "labor intensive" than a highly automated Airbus.
Yet you can fly the 1900 solo but you can't the airbus.
Is it just because you have a lot of pax in the back that the airbus must be flown with two pilots?
It doesn't seem to allways make sense in regards to one or two crew. A friend of mine flys a Beech 18 (at a museum) and told me that the Beech 18 can actually be flown single pilot. I don't know a whole lot about how labour intensive different planes are to fly, but I have been told that the Expeditor is a tricky plane to fly. Of course I could be totaly wrong and I appologize if I am.
Where do you get this from? The 1900 can be operated under 703 rules if you have under 9 pax, but where is it written that you can fly single pilot? I pasted the link where TC very clearly states that it's a two crew plane.veloz wrote:The 1900C in canada is a two crew a/c in any type of operation(604). a 1900D on the other hand can be operated single pilot if < 9 pax.
The Beech 18 is abit different than the B-1900, it has been flown single pilot for a long time, do any float operators that fly them with 2 crew?Greg87 wrote:It doesn't seem to allways make sense in regards to one or two crew. A friend of mine flys a Beech 18 (at a museum) and told me that the Beech 18 can actually be flown single pilot. I don't know a whole lot about how labour intensive different planes are to fly, but I have been told that the Expeditor is a tricky plane to fly. Of course I could be totaly wrong and I appologize if I am.
In canada you can operate the 1900D single pilot under 604,Where do you get this from? The 1900 can be operated under 703 rules if you have under 9 pax, but where is it written that you can fly single pilot? I pasted the link where TC very clearly states that it's a two crew plane.
I think the problem all stems from the way the B1900 is certified.
In my opinion, the 1900 B & C must be certified to USA FAR 23 sFAR 41C standards whereby the 1900D is certified to USA FAR 23 Commuter Category. If someone has a 1900 manual, check it out.
USA FAR 23 sFAR 41 was for US domestic use only so Canada and the rest of the world did not know how to handle this airplane which was a FAR 23 small airplane but was not a Normal Category airplane because it is allowed to be operated in excess of 12,550 lbs. or with up to19 passengers.
So ICAO came up with Annex 8 requirements and I am not sure wheather the two crew came from there or it was a TC thingee. Once sFAR ran it's course, (expired in 1990) FAR 23 CC was developed. About this time, TC introduced the CARS and they were harmonized with the FAR's so USA FAR 23 CC became CARS 523 CC and it will allow single pilot operations because the airplane is certified to a category TC can recognise, meaning it follows ICAO standards, which is recognised worldwide. .
One "policy" TC has appeared to adopt is to pass laws that will be a bit restrictive but allow Air Carriers to apply and be granted Operations Specifications that will provide relief from the restrictive laws, One section will allow single pilot operations under the rules and/or restrictions contained in the OPS Spec.
It is like an ILS. Anyone with an Instrument Rating in a properly equipped airplane can shoot an ILS to Cat 1 limits but if air carriers have specially equipped airplanes, properly trained aircrew and properly equipped airports, they can be authorized to operate to lower limits, such as ILS CAT 11, CAT 111 or RNP.
This is my opinion. The Beech 350, CARS 23 CC, can be operated as a single-pilot airplane but the requirements in Canada are more restrictive than the cost of a warm body in the right seat. The Beech 1900 is certified to the same category. Any airplane operate single pilot will be restricted to 9 paying passengers or less and be operated at 25,000 ft or less. The same thing happens to a Metro 11, Metro 111 and Metro 23.
Does anybody have anything else to add?
In my opinion, the 1900 B & C must be certified to USA FAR 23 sFAR 41C standards whereby the 1900D is certified to USA FAR 23 Commuter Category. If someone has a 1900 manual, check it out.
USA FAR 23 sFAR 41 was for US domestic use only so Canada and the rest of the world did not know how to handle this airplane which was a FAR 23 small airplane but was not a Normal Category airplane because it is allowed to be operated in excess of 12,550 lbs. or with up to19 passengers.
So ICAO came up with Annex 8 requirements and I am not sure wheather the two crew came from there or it was a TC thingee. Once sFAR ran it's course, (expired in 1990) FAR 23 CC was developed. About this time, TC introduced the CARS and they were harmonized with the FAR's so USA FAR 23 CC became CARS 523 CC and it will allow single pilot operations because the airplane is certified to a category TC can recognise, meaning it follows ICAO standards, which is recognised worldwide. .
One "policy" TC has appeared to adopt is to pass laws that will be a bit restrictive but allow Air Carriers to apply and be granted Operations Specifications that will provide relief from the restrictive laws, One section will allow single pilot operations under the rules and/or restrictions contained in the OPS Spec.
It is like an ILS. Anyone with an Instrument Rating in a properly equipped airplane can shoot an ILS to Cat 1 limits but if air carriers have specially equipped airplanes, properly trained aircrew and properly equipped airports, they can be authorized to operate to lower limits, such as ILS CAT 11, CAT 111 or RNP.
This is my opinion. The Beech 350, CARS 23 CC, can be operated as a single-pilot airplane but the requirements in Canada are more restrictive than the cost of a warm body in the right seat. The Beech 1900 is certified to the same category. Any airplane operate single pilot will be restricted to 9 paying passengers or less and be operated at 25,000 ft or less. The same thing happens to a Metro 11, Metro 111 and Metro 23.
Does anybody have anything else to add?
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
