Wouldn't want to be them!
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Crazed Windscreen
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Well since I started this I better chime in to.
My original post reffered to 2 things, the ability of the candidits to perform in a complex aircraft and the mood associated with 250 hour pilots being hired to do the job so many people hussled there asses off for. What is an ex Regional guy who got furlowed and treated like shit going to think.
Oh I hear there are now 2 pay scales and the new one is below the poverty line.
My original post reffered to 2 things, the ability of the candidits to perform in a complex aircraft and the mood associated with 250 hour pilots being hired to do the job so many people hussled there asses off for. What is an ex Regional guy who got furlowed and treated like shit going to think.
Oh I hear there are now 2 pay scales and the new one is below the poverty line.
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Crazed Windscreen
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Jazz couldn't care less what you think or how badly you got screwed. Pilots (and I don't blame them) have created this environment with jumping at every opportunity. Jazz is in it for one thing and one thing only. MAKE MONEY. And if they see an oppotunity to do so with young stay for awhile guys, then thats what they will do. Its the way the world operates.
Did it ever occur to anyone here that Jazz/AC are just launching an experiment because they see the pilot pool drying up.
My understanding is they will not be hiring exclusively from the college, so all you '. Yeager' types that have paid their 'dues' and are therefore so much more deserving than anyone else can still park your egos in an RJ.
Just because you can get some twin into a gravel strip after circling at or below minima single pilot, doesn't mean you would be a good member of an airline crew. I have flown with some highly 'experienced' pilots with that type of background that were just nightmares. I have also flown with relatively low time new hires that are very competent. The point is one skill set does not necessarily translate to the other.
My understanding is they will not be hiring exclusively from the college, so all you '. Yeager' types that have paid their 'dues' and are therefore so much more deserving than anyone else can still park your egos in an RJ.
Just because you can get some twin into a gravel strip after circling at or below minima single pilot, doesn't mean you would be a good member of an airline crew. I have flown with some highly 'experienced' pilots with that type of background that were just nightmares. I have also flown with relatively low time new hires that are very competent. The point is one skill set does not necessarily translate to the other.
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niss
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I think this has intresting prospects to it. We allready know there are pleanty of people who want to fly big iron and pleanty who want to fly floats, etc.
Imagine for an instance that you could have (as the norm) 2 training programs. One that teaches you how to fly for the airlines (Crew Management, Complex A/C, Etc.) and another to teach you how to fly bush (Survival, Mechanics, Etc.). Each one has oppourtunity for direct entry.
Think of how many ppl are flying bush or instructing just to build time to make it to their goal of the airlines.
No imagine if those people were not there, there would be more jobs available for the people who really want to be there.
There wouldnt be a need to "pay your dues", everyone could groom their training to suit their needs.
That way each branch of flying has people who are where they actually want to be. This would also allow for more specific and intense training so people going to their specific area of interest would have better knowlege of those areas than just a generalization of everything.
Imagine for an instance that you could have (as the norm) 2 training programs. One that teaches you how to fly for the airlines (Crew Management, Complex A/C, Etc.) and another to teach you how to fly bush (Survival, Mechanics, Etc.). Each one has oppourtunity for direct entry.
Think of how many ppl are flying bush or instructing just to build time to make it to their goal of the airlines.
No imagine if those people were not there, there would be more jobs available for the people who really want to be there.
There wouldnt be a need to "pay your dues", everyone could groom their training to suit their needs.
That way each branch of flying has people who are where they actually want to be. This would also allow for more specific and intense training so people going to their specific area of interest would have better knowlege of those areas than just a generalization of everything.
She’s built like a Steakhouse, but she handles like a Bistro.
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
Let's kick the tires, and light the fires.... SHIT! FIRE! EMERGENCY CHECKLIST!
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Driving Rain
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Cat Driver 
Couldn't agree more. We've quite a few aviation college grads in the 415's now. All paid their due's to boot. They are all pretty sharp guys with the books too. I always make sure I sit beside one of them in griound school. My dad told me you don't have to be the smartest guy in the room.. find out who is and then go stand beside them.I was quite impressed with the young guys in Europe being trained to go straight into the airlines from zero hours.....
...and they seem to be able to weed out the villiage idiots during the training process..
I think it will work out quite nicely .
I have been quite impressed with some of the Low time product coming out of some of these schools over the years.
A lot of the success will depend on the individual.It is not an attendance course that these pilots have taken .I do not think that it will be difficult for some of these bright young intelligent people to be useful .Given the level of traing that they will be getting and Who will be doing the training.
The enthusiasm that some of these young whippersnappers have might just rub off on the crusty old salts.
It is good that not everyone has to suffer for this industry.
I have been quite impressed with some of the Low time product coming out of some of these schools over the years.
A lot of the success will depend on the individual.It is not an attendance course that these pilots have taken .I do not think that it will be difficult for some of these bright young intelligent people to be useful .Given the level of traing that they will be getting and Who will be doing the training.
The enthusiasm that some of these young whippersnappers have might just rub off on the crusty old salts.
It is good that not everyone has to suffer for this industry.
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critical engine
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Anyone Even Comfirm This Hiring Yet????
It Would Sure Be Silly To Have A 2 Page Thread On A Rumor Joke Or Troll...
It Would Sure Be Silly To Have A 2 Page Thread On A Rumor Joke Or Troll...
Son, someday you will make a girl very happy, for a short period of time. Then she`ll leave you and be with new men who are ten times better than you could ever hope to be. These men are called pilots.
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fingersmac
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I remeber my instructor (former MD80 captain) teaching me how to land in a jet, during my PPL (on a PA-38).....
New jets are full of automation, triple redoundat systems, highly tested enginges, auto-trhottle, flight director, they fly above the weather.... i still think that the most difficult job in aviation is the INSTRUCTOR, passing your experience, breeding and selecting pilots is not just a businness.
19 years old instructors with 200 hours of local experince is just an excuse to:
-under-pay the poor instructor
-overcharge the customer
-create a "pay your due" mentality that is only at the advantage of the schools (they hold pilots by their balls)
-decrease safety
-increase insurance
New jets are full of automation, triple redoundat systems, highly tested enginges, auto-trhottle, flight director, they fly above the weather.... i still think that the most difficult job in aviation is the INSTRUCTOR, passing your experience, breeding and selecting pilots is not just a businness.
19 years old instructors with 200 hours of local experince is just an excuse to:
-under-pay the poor instructor
-overcharge the customer
-create a "pay your due" mentality that is only at the advantage of the schools (they hold pilots by their balls)
-decrease safety
-increase insurance
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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cplpilot:
The average flying school owner is lucky to make a living because of all the costs involved in operating a school because the requirements that are mandated by TC are mindboggling and few flying schools manage to get big enough to really make a good profit.
If a Canadian citizen could start up a school without the need to comply with all the B.S. that TC demands there would be a lot more money in it for the instructors and the quality of pilot they turn out would be better than what the schools now turn out because there would be enough profit to hire experienced pilots to teach.
But that will never happen in the Peoples Socialist Republic of Canada.
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I still have the Aerobat Taildragger sitting in the hangar a left over from my attempt to get approval from TC for a FTU OC.
Just using the Aerobat and the Cub on floats when I get it finished I could turn out a very high quality of pilot without ever needing any input from TC Flight Training.
And I wouldn't have to renew my Class 2 instructors rating either.
And you can bet the maintenance would be far superior to a lot of the commercial stuff I see flying all over Canada.
Cat
The average flying school owner is lucky to make a living because of all the costs involved in operating a school because the requirements that are mandated by TC are mindboggling and few flying schools manage to get big enough to really make a good profit.
If a Canadian citizen could start up a school without the need to comply with all the B.S. that TC demands there would be a lot more money in it for the instructors and the quality of pilot they turn out would be better than what the schools now turn out because there would be enough profit to hire experienced pilots to teach.
But that will never happen in the Peoples Socialist Republic of Canada.
***********************************************
I still have the Aerobat Taildragger sitting in the hangar a left over from my attempt to get approval from TC for a FTU OC.
Just using the Aerobat and the Cub on floats when I get it finished I could turn out a very high quality of pilot without ever needing any input from TC Flight Training.
And I wouldn't have to renew my Class 2 instructors rating either.
And you can bet the maintenance would be far superior to a lot of the commercial stuff I see flying all over Canada.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
wouldn't want to be them
Congratulations to the eight young students that got selected for Jazz. You probably got selected for your academic achievements, , your family heritage and political connections, your superior computer skills and REALLY good teeth. On your first day on the job, make sure you tell your Captain how lucky he/she is to wintness the "New Age of airline aviation" Don't worry about not having experience in the Small Charter, Agriculture or Bush flying.....You don't need it!!! Your in the union now and you got it made!! When you drive by us Bush Pilots in your Porsche...Please wave...we need love too.
Re: wouldn't want to be them
I guess the memo that you are owed a job because you are 'experienced' was misplaced by someone.gapper wrote:Congratulations to the eight young students that got selected for Jazz. You probably got selected for your academic achievements, , your family heritage and political connections, your superior computer skills and REALLY good teeth. On your first day on the job, make sure you tell your Captain how lucky he/she is to wintness the "New Age of airline aviation" Don't worry about not having experience in the Small Charter, Agriculture or Bush flying.....You don't need it!!! Your in the union now and you got it made!! When you drive by us Bush Pilots in your Porsche...Please wave...we need love too.
It's time to get over it and yourself.
Have you ever flown an airplane that for two years as an FO and still felt like you weren't able to be a Captain on it? Captain on a heavy at 25 isn't out of the question. At that point he probably has 7 years flying experience, with 3 of them in fighters and other high performance machines. Tack on a few years in a widebody, and, if he's sharp, he should be ready to skipper the thing. Just a thought.
SD
SD
As you pointed out in your post flying is not that difficult to learn. It is not really surprising that someone has the skills to fly heavy iron with 250TT.Cat Driver said: I was quite impressed with the young guys in Europe being trained to go straight into the airlines from zero hours.....
...and they seem to be able to weed out the villiage idiots during the training process.
However, as some accidents in Europe have proved, even if the idiots are weeded out, low time co-pilots can be a real liability. Their lack of experience makes a two man crew more like one and a half when things start to go wrong.
I recall a CFIT accident in Switzerland where the co-pilot did nothing as the FP blew right through the MDA. The report even said the most likely cause was his lack of flying experience and inability to assess correctly what was happening. I doubt the accident would have occurred with an experienced co-pilot on board. An extreme example to be sure but one worth considering....
Best of luck to the guys that Jazz picked up. Hopefully the learning curve isn't too steep for them.
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Rudderless
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Some foreign airlines train all their pilots from scratch - so they develop no bad habits, and so on. Which is fine - all their pilots go the same route. I personally come from the era where no matter how "good" you might have been, you paid your dues and worked your way up. Apprenticeship/Internship, whatever . I remember working at a large FTU/charter/sched operation, where senior instructors who had proved their mettle over a period of time were hopeful for the chance to move into the upper echelons of the organization: then the brand new college graduates hired on as Class IV instructors 2 weeks prior were outraged that they weren't being advanced immediately into big fast aeroplanes. WTF??? They could barely find the circuit, much less be of any particular use. They was the first of today's instant gratification generation.
