Still Buying Your Jobs?

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Doc
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Still Buying Your Jobs?

Post by Doc »

WHY??
Still taking out bank loans? I guess I just don't get it?
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LostinRotation
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Post by LostinRotation »

Paying up front is obviously not the way to go...so many time we've seen companies fold or turn into scummy operators after they have your $$$. If they ask for $$$, ask for the directions out the door.


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Justwannafly
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Re: Still Buying Your Jobs?

Post by Justwannafly »

Doc wrote:WHY??
Still taking out bank loans? I guess I just don't get it?
Yea ESPECIALY with things the way they are right now I'm shock'd each time I hear someone still doing that :(
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bandit1
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Post by bandit1 »

FUKIN WHORES!!!
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Post by Speedbird Junior »

Oh boy, you ain't seen nothing yet... :shock:

Over in Europe, guys are coming out of the ATPL course with their 250hrs and lining up to go to a type rating provider and get typed on an Airbus/Boeing etc.

All this at a cost of about 20K Euros or £14K. That's over and above the initial training. Now the really depressing thing is that not one, but MANY of the Lo-co's (Ryan, Easy etc) are already stating in their hiring requirements that "own type rating preferred" Feckin lame if you ask me.

There are still a few options here to get on a Dash or a turbo prop and be bonded, which is way more preferable.

I wonder how these guys are coping - totally green out of school and straight in to an AIRBUS of all things! That ain't no Ho, thats for sure...
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Post by bandit1 »

It ain't no Ho. Exactly. You don't have to know how to fly. You have to learn how to program, that's all.

Flying ahold is alot harder in a Ho than a big jet with FMS. All you have to do is input the right data in the FMS and the plane flies the hold itself.

Anyone can learn systems and programming however it takes alot longer to learn how to fly properly
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jackrabbit
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Post by jackrabbit »

So what good companies out there do not require any type of training bond/promisary note/contract etc.. I need names.
Are there any left???
Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with bonds at all. I think that the training expense is one of the costs of doing business for the company. Even if a guy comes to the company with a PPC there is still a requirement for company training. However, I can also see how much more money a company would spend if they have to train 3 pilots/year for the same position because people leave. I work for a great company, love my job. They treat us well, make decent money, good schedule, etc. For most people here, this is their last job, or second last job. And guess what, if the opportunity comes up fo their last job (arlines, gov't, corporate...whatever it is), there is nothing the company can offer to keep those people here. That's the way the industy works. So....there is a bond at this place as well. Some guys have bolted and others haven't.
I also agree with the opinion that some people are focused too much on the destination rather than the journey, although it's tough to tell that to the guy who is working out of pickle lake or stony rapids or inuvik. That too many people are in such a rush to get to the airlines only to be bored after the frst year. But hey, to each their own. It doesn't take away from the fact that while we bitch and moan when the industry is in the crapper about how the companies walk all over us and treat us like sh!t, when it finally turns around we start screwing the companies over by leaving for "better" jobs the first chance we get.
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Post by Driving Rain »

It doesn't take away from the fact that while we bitch and moan when the industry is in the crapper about how the companies walk all over us and treat us like sh!t, when it finally turns around we start screwing the companies over by leaving for "better" jobs the first chance we get.
You make the whole industry sound like a bunch of hookers. :roll:

36 years in the industry never signed a bond or paid money up front for a job. Earned every PPC and type the old fashioned way, by working honestly and to the best of my abilities. What ever happened to the hand shake and giving your word?
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Pie Lot
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Post by Pie Lot »

Taking out loans, signing bonds, why??

I dont know, look around at the way the industry is moving, and the low lifes that are skipping on to better things, 4 months after a company just spent how many thousands training them with a promise of staying at least a year. That's why.

I have over 4000 hours, want to go to another company and have a $10K check in my hand. I will honor my commitment, get my $10K back plus interest better than the bank is paying me, so what's the big deal. Now if I skip out on my promise, then I pay, and that's the way it should be.

Now if your goal is to just stay flying say..I dont know...a BE20, for the same company for years. And moving up and on is not a concern of yours. then it is easy to knock those of us not afraid to make a commitment and back it up with some cash.
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Doc
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Post by Doc »

I'd bet it's 10K of your daddy's money.
You're the guy who's screwing for the rest of us! Why not just put on a short leather skirt, a pair of fishnets, and make an honest living?
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mbav8r
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Post by mbav8r »

jackrabbit wrote:
It doesn't take away from the fact that while we bitch and moan when the industry is in the crapper about how the companies walk all over us and treat us like sh!t, when it finally turns around we start screwing the companies over by leaving for "better" jobs the first chance we get.
That statement is the reason people leave, they treat us like sh*t and then when it turns around, it's payback time.Karma you heard of it? I myself don't condone this type of behavior, for me if a company treats me badly I quit. That simple I've done it a few times when the times where bad I would drive transport trucks(my backup)I for one have never let operators push me around.
The bond issue is a huge one namely because it gives the operator an unfair leverage over you. Except to say that if you're not afraid of being let go(fired :D ) then thats your options, if you have a bond make sure if they fire you for just cause or not, your bond is still paid. Because companies can find just cause by having a brown noser company coc@*ucker lie about you, giving them cause.I know I've been there.
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Post by Cat Driver »

I only paid for part of my Commercial License and five hours for my float rating. Most of my private and commercial was paid for by working for the school.

Multi engine, paid for by my first multi engine employer.

IFR paid for by company.

Helicopter license was provided by my employer at no cost, and I was paid my salary during training.

Fire Bombing training was for direct Captain position on PBY, was paid Capt. wage during training.

Airdisplay Authorization to fly in the European Air Show circuit ( JAR - CAA ) and all airplane check outs were paid for by my employer.

And most difficult to get was being hired by a major Movie Company ( Mirimax ) to fly in a movie production.....that one I owe to the insurance underwriters at Lloyds of London who took the risk of providing the incredible pay out clause in the policy...they felt the risk was acceptable and were correct.

Why did the industry change?

Cat
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Post by Kelowna Pilot »

Is this topic supposed to be about Bonds or about giving the owner money in a white envelope to literally buy the job?

If it's the later, stuff like that goes on all over the world. I can think of several countries were it's common practice.

You want something, you buy it.
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trey kule
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Post by trey kule »

....and how does that make it right?
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mbav8r
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Post by mbav8r »

Kelowna pilot wrote:
You want something, you buy it.
I suppose you believe that the rich people should pay less tax and the difference should be made up from the middle class. that type of ignorance perpetuates the problems we're having in this industry. I had a roomate who had a silver spoon sticking out of his mouth with trust fund to boot. Dad was a 47 Capt. and I'm sure he could buy any job he wanted but he didn't he chose to work his way up. He was a bit on the lazy side and I don't think he realized the crap we deal with in the name of "paying your dues" but he tried just the same. He's a good guy and I hope he's doing well out there.
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Post by Cat Driver »

Doc....

Can you make this quote by Kelowna Pilot a sticky.....

......with my addition tagged on?

Quote, Kelowna Pilot:
" You want something, you buy it. "
Quote. Cat Driver:
" That is the way it works, when they want me to fly for them they buy me. "
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The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no


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Post by Doc »

He's just pissed because he had to BUY his first piece!
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Post by Justwannafly »

Speedbird Junior wrote:I wonder how these guys are coping - totally green out of school and straight in to an AIRBUS of all things! That ain't no Ho, thats for sure...
Oh don't worry it may be an airbus, but the HO is still there. Just instead of being the aircraft, the HO is the guy in the front seat who prostituted himself to get the job, while screwing everyone else who either couldn't afford to buy the job, or had the self respect NOT to.
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Post by Pie Lot »

Never bought a PPC. Never would.

I just don't mind a bond because of all the farcking weasels that figure they should be allowed to skip on a job where a company invested thousands in them but they have a chance for something better. Companies didn't start out with bonds. Cat is an old timer (no offense Cat) and when he received all that free training, he probably honored and handshake commitment he made. Not like all the selfish, the world owes me weasels today, that made bonds etc necessary for companies.

And no Doc, it is my own money. I'm nearly 40 years old and don't take handouts from Daddy. I just understand from being a business owner in a previous life what it is like to have no moral employees screw you. I will make more money from the interest paid on the bond than the bank is giving me, so big deal. I am not buying my job, I am just ensuring I will honor my comittment to the company. And if I leave, then it is my own fault to be out of pocket.
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jackrabbit
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Post by jackrabbit »

Doc wrote:I'd bet it's 10K of your daddy's money.
You're the guy who's screwing for the rest of us! Why not just put on a short leather skirt, a pair of fishnets, and make an honest living?
Hey Doc,

It's not Pie Lot thats screwing it up for the rest of us. It's the guys that jump from job to job forcing companies to retrain for the same position. How 'bout taking a round out of them for awhile?
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Last edited by jackrabbit on Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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