Francais en Quebec, what about the rest of Canada?

[taxiway_matthew]

As I listen to Montreal ATC, I notice the interchanging of French and English. Is there some law or regulation that keeps this to Quebec, or can controllers speak french to francophones in other areas of Canada as well?
P.S. Don't open the can o' worms that is the language debate

[just curious]

Yeah, back in '76.
I'll use french when joining overhead someplace in the middle of the tundra once in a while nowadays, but only to really irritate the odd redneck that might be listening.

[Aeros]

As I listen to Montreal ATC, I notice the interchanging of French and English. Is there some law or regulation that keeps this to Quebec, or can controllers speak french to francophones in other areas of Canada as well?
P.S. Don't open the can o' worms that is the language debate

Here's where the CARs spell out that English will work anywhere and where it also lists the spots that French will work too:

DIVISION VIII - RADIOCOMMUNICATIONS

Language Used in Aeronautical Radiocommunications

602.133 English and French are the languages of aeronautical radiocommunication in Canada.

Locations Where Services Are Available in English and French

602.134 (1) Any person operating an aircraft who wishes to receive the services referred to in this section in one of either English or French shall so indicate to the appropriate air traffic control unit or flight service station by means of an initial radiocommunication in English or French, as appropriate.

(2) Every flight service station set out in Table 1 to this section and every air traffic control unit set out in Table 3 to this section shall provide advisory services in English and French.

(3) Every air traffic control unit set out in Table 3 to this section shall provide air traffic services in English and French.

(4) Every temporary air traffic control unit located in the province of Quebec shall provide air traffic services in English and French.

(5) Every flight service station set out in Table 2 to this section shall provide, between any person operating an aircraft and any air traffic control unit set out in Table 3 to this section, a relay service of IFR air traffic control messages in English or French, as indicated by that person.

Table 1 - Flight Service Stations where Advisory Services are Available in English and French
1. Charlo
2. Gaspé
3. Gatineau
4. Îles-de-la-Madeleine
5. Kuujjuaq
6. Kuujjuarapik
7. La Grande Rivière
8. Mont-Joli
9. Montréal
10. Québec
11. Roberval
12. Rouyn
13. Sept-Îles
14. Squaw Lake (seasonal station)
15. Val-d'Or

Table 2 - Flight Service Stations where Relay Services of IFR Air Traffic Control Messages are Available In English and French
1. Gaspé
2. Gatineau
3. Îles-de-la-Madeleine
4. Kuujjuaq
5. Kuujjuarapik
6. La Grande Rivière
7. Mont-Joli
8. Montréal
9. Québec
10. Roberval
11. Rouyn
12. Sept-Îles
13. Squaw Lake (seasonal station)
14. Val-d'Or

Table 3 - Air Traffic Control Units where Advisory Services and Air Traffic Control Services are Available in English and French
Area Control Centre
1. Montréal
Terminal Control Units
2. Bagotville
3. Montréal
4. Ottawa
5. Québec
Air Traffic Control Towers
6. Bagotville
7. Montréal International (Pierre Elliott Trudeau)
8. Montréal International (Mirabel)
9. Ottawa International (Macdonald-Cartier)
10. Québec International (Jean Lesage)
11. St-Honoré
12. St-Hubert
13. St-Jean (Province of Québec)
14. Sept-Îles

Locations Where Services Are Available in English

602.135 All air traffic control units and flight service stations shall provide aeronautical radiocommunication services in English.

I didn't see anything that said that you couldn't use French in Winnipeg for example. My guess is that, even if the controller was bilingual, NavCanada's ManOps will not permit the controller/FSS to use French for liability reasons.

[Hedley]

When this came out, it made it painfully clear to everyone that aviation safety takes a back seat to politics (what was your first clue? duh)

Sooner or later this is going to be listed as a contributing cause to an accident. I do hope that Tower C is happy about their contribution towards those future deaths.

[bmc]

The use of more than one language works well here in Europe. Has it really been a problem in Canada since the change 20+ years ago?

[Lear45XR]

According to your logic it must be really unsafe to fly in Germany, Italy, Cuba, Russia and oh! the rest of the world where English is not spoken by locals...I can't believe we're still having this discussion in 2007!

May I remind you that the rest of world speaks the local language+English on the radio! I've spent the last 10 years of my life flying as far east as Russia down to Argentina from Canada. I know for a fact that Standard ICAO phraseology is well...not standard (the US is by far the worst/ cleared down to 5 leave it on the glide, tower inside/ AC123 FL330...welcome aboard!) across the board but what are we gonna do? Shut down airspace over Europe, prevent an Italian pilot from getting his PPL?

Would you prefer to fly into Montreal, Mexico City or Moscow and have a 250hr-unilingual Ace McCool try to speak English on the radio, mix-up clearances endeangering himself and others...or have a professional bilingual controller (who's paid good money) take care of the language issue so you and I don't have to...

Cheers!

[Johnny Ryall]

When this came out, it made it painfully clear to everyone that aviation safety takes a back seat to politics (what was your first clue? duh)

Sooner or later this is going to be listed as a contributing cause to an accident. I do hope that Tower C is happy about their contribution towards those future deaths.

you and others who think that way are simply assholes, as proven by previous comments. have a nice day.

[Hedley]

I rest my case wrt politics.

Hey, why don't we allow Mandarin on the radio at YYZ?

Why should there only be 2 languages spoken on shitty AM VHF comm radios? Why not 3? Why not 10?

[laticsdave]

They should all speak bloody English!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And call soccer FOOTBALL

[Braun]

I don't see how the use of French compromises safety, we speak both languages well and use the standard phraseology for both languages so I don't see the problem. There are way more pilots than controllers that don't speak english. What would we do then?

[pilotbzh]

let's take the most spoken language on the planet and use it as a standard

http://www.krysstal.com/spoken.html

[TG]

Hey, why don't we allow Mandarin on the radio at YYZ?

Mandarin is not an official language in Canada.

[gr8gazu]

Je me give shit pas!!

While the use of French/English may not compromise safety, it certainly does not enhance it. Situational awareness is always better when all parties are speaking the same language.

I would much prefer english be used exclusively and so must TC/ICAO as proven by the proposed "english proficiency testing".

[Doc]

BINGO

[.......]

According to your logic it must be really unsafe to fly in Germany, Italy, Cuba, Russia and oh! the rest of the world where English is not spoken by locals...I can't believe we're still having this discussion in 2007!

May I remind you that the rest of world speaks the local language+English on the radio! I've spent the last 10 years of my life flying as far east as Russia down to Argentina from Canada. I know for a fact that Standard ICAO phraseology is well...not standard (the US is by far the worst/ cleared down to 5 leave it on the glide, tower inside/ AC123 FL330...welcome aboard!) across the board but what are we gonna do? Shut down airspace over Europe, prevent an Italian pilot from getting his PPL?

Would you prefer to fly into Montreal, Mexico City or Moscow and have a 250hr-unilingual Ace McCool try to speak English on the radio, mix-up clearances endeangering himself and others...or have a professional bilingual controller (who's paid good money) take care of the language issue so you and I don't have to...

Cheers!

Amen brother!

Hedley et al... You really will never give up will you... Lear45xr stated it best and you only read and twist it to suit your opinion... stop looking at your own belly button and get out of Canada a bit!

[El Comat]

Here's a situation that happened to me the other day that made me wish every pilot in Canada spoke English fluently.

We were in YAT, departing for ZKE. We called taxiing, and once again when we were airborne. No response. About 3-4 miles south of YAT we hear "Creedence (fake callsign) 702 is 8 mile south of YAT, descending through 3,600, YAT in x minutes." Just as he says that I spot traffic at our 12 coming right at us (not moving in the windscreen). I jump on the radio and tell him our position and say that we'll deviate to the west (right turn), thinking he'll deviate east. WRONG....he also deviates west so I haul the nose up more to ensure we climb over him. He passed about 500' below us dead on our track. That's when I got mad and had to bite my tongue...all I managed was, "Earlier notice would've been nice!". To that he replied.......nothing at all. After making his initial call, he didn't say a word to me, even after I gave our position and intentions. We heard him carry on and call final in YAT, totally oblivious to what just happened.

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of French friends and I have nothing against them. But when the safety of 11 souls is endangered because someone didn't understand simple English I get a little upset.

Rant complete. To those who falsely think I'm bashing the French or their language, flame away I suppose. This was just an attempt to show how language skills needlessly endangered lives.

EC

[flyinphil]

According to your logic it must be really unsafe to fly in Germany, Italy, Cuba, Russia and oh! the rest of the world where English is not spoken by locals...I can't believe we're still having this discussion in 2007!

As another poster alluded to, it may not be "unsafe" but it is not as safe as it could be. Having flown extensively all over this globe, I have to admit that situational awareness is compromised with differing languages.

I know for a fact that Standard ICAO phraseology is well...not standard across the board but what are we gonna do? Shut down airspace over Europe, prevent an Italian pilot from getting his PPL?

Nobody is suggesting shutting any airspace down. Just be aware of the compromise. As to ICAO phaseology, It is adheared to within its intent. We are all getting a little more casual on this side of the pond though.

Would you prefer to fly into Montreal, Mexico City or Moscow and have a 250hr-unilingual Ace McCool try to speak English on the radio, mix-up clearances endeangering himself and others...or have a professional bilingual controller (who's paid good money) take care of the language issue so you and I don't have to...

Sorry, but I don't follow your logic. I would rather hear his confusion in a language that I understand. That also helps with situational awareness.

[Doc]

I guess we could use Spanish. 40% to the North American population speaks it. Less than 3% understand French. Or, we could be like everyone else, and just accept the fact that we should use English. It seems that only French Canadians find that to be insulting? But, I must admit, when operating in Northern Quebec, it bothers me not. I just don't know what's going on around me. For me, at least, that's pretty normal.

Hey El Comat...I thought YAT was in Ontario?

[petey]

They should all speak bloody English!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And call soccer FOOTBALL

Why should they call soccer, football ... it's soccer? I guess we could call them both football, "real" football (the american style where men smash the s**t out of eachother for 60 minutes, and can get charged a timeout if somebody gets hurt), or, "euro" football (where reject jockeys run around in short shorts, faking injuries, only to allow "injury time" at the end of it all. INJURY TIME! Ha Ha Ha.)

Sorry to open another can o' worms, but something had to be said.

GO RIDERS!

[.......]

And yes...there we have it! Another sterile language thread....Yipee!