Forced Approaches

172pilot · Post by **172pilot** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:14 pm

Any good suggestions at judging the gliding distance in a Cessna 172 or how to have more success at picking a field and making it successfully?

Goose757 · Post by **Goose757** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:17 pm

172pilot wrote:Any good suggestions at judging the gliding distance in a Cessna 172 or how to have more success at picking a field and making it successfully?

Practice practice practice. Its not something you can learn in a book, you have to just go out there and do it.

Next time you're in a circuit though, take a look at what the runway looks like when you turn base at 1000' and final at 500' and when you're doing a forced, fly it like a regular circuit.

happily.retired · Post by **happily.retired** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:28 pm

Fly from schools with lousy maintenance untill you get a real engine failure. Once you've actually been behind a silent engine you'll never forget how to do it, or forget to practice them

newalliance123 · Post by **newalliance123** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:39 pm

just make sure to pick any field ASAP thats into the wind. Then setup like a normal pattern. If you find a better field in this time change the field to it. As for flying it many different opinions, Ive found the normal pattern to work at low altitudes, at higher i like to figure 8 about .5 miles on final always turning towards the runway works well. Just gotta get a feel for the plane...

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:42 pm

Practice practice practice with the specific aircraft type. they're all different. i find the high key, low key method has been the most reliable and transfers well to other aircraft types.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:19 pm

Yeah, practice. I find flying a circuit is best (as close as possible). 1000 at base, 500 on final and adjust those numbers for the wind to get you down.

West Coast Swell · Post by **West Coast Swell** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:48 pm

Practice like it's real. If you miss this one you are all dead!

C-GPFG · Post by **C-GPFG** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:42 pm

The terrain in the windscreen that isn't moving is where you'll touchdown.

Another general rule I taught is if you were doing a gliding circuit to a field, as your touchdown point touches the tip of the nose cowl, lower 20 degrees of flaps...that will bring the touchdown point back up into the centre of the windscreen as you will need to lower the nose to maintain best glide. Once you know you can make the field, and wind/turbulence conditions permit, lower flaps to 40 degrees.

ez4u2say · Post by **ez4u2say** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:59 pm

I was taught 42 years ago to come in high on final...there is always a way to lose altitude eg sideslip...it's worked for me so far...twice...you will always remember those times....

Edo · Post by **Edo** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:04 pm

Dont forget the headwind component !!

Add the speed of the headwind to the glide speed. This is hammered into glider pilots, but hardly ever mentioned in powered training.

If you are practicing at the same field, simulate the failure over a given point, then come back when you have 10 mph of headwind. If the glide speed is not increased you will never make the field.

At first its really hard to add the 10 mph to the glide, the nose looks way too low but you need that extra energy to offset the headwind.

RatherBeFlying · Post by **RatherBeFlying** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:53 pm

Start with simulated engine failures from downwind and target the threshold.

If you have to add throttle, you goofed up.

Of course you should warm the engine at 500' and maybe not take it all the way down to idle in cold temps, especially if intending a touch and go. You can compensate with extra flaps or sideslip.

You will likely drop the habit of 2 or 3 mile finals.

Once you have the sight picture established in various wind conditions, practise away from the airport.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:44 pm

ez4u2say wrote:I was taught 42 years ago to come in high on final...there is always a way to lose altitude eg sideslip...it's worked for me so far...twice...you will always remember those times....

Great point it also hurts a lot less to hit the tree at the end of the filed doing 20MPH on the ground then hit the tree at at the start doing 60 and 100ft up!

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:57 pm

C-GPFG wrote:The terrain in the windscreen that isn't moving is where you'll touchdown.

I always aim at the numbers and have never landed on them while doing that. Maybe it's just me.

-istp

FL_CH · Post by **FL_CH** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:04 pm

just don't flare next time

SAR_YQQ · Post by **SAR_YQQ** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:17 pm

istp wrote:I always aim at the numbers and have never landed on them while doing that. Maybe it's just me.

That's because your aimpoint is never the same as your touch down point.

If you want to land on the numbers - make your aim point below the numbers and fly the plane to that spot in space. Your resulting flare and burble will cause you to land upwind everytime.

Exceptions to this rule always exist - the slower and steeper you are, the shorter the distance between aimpoint and touch down point.

john_brown · Post by **john_brown** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:18 pm

On the big freighters, if the pilot flying touches the throttle
after being cleared to descend, he has to pay the beer
to all who are riding in the cockpit...varying speed is cheating...
(unless of course, the ATC screw up the approach...)
The three to one rule rules, (30,000ft = 90 miles away)
with wind correction and early start if you
are heavy and late if you are light.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:17 am

Log yourself a few flights receiving instruction in gliders. Teach you a lot about flying and forced landings.

. ._ · Post by **. ._** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:01 am

FL_CH wrote:just don't flare next time

Carrier landing. Check.

Thanks. I'll do that from now on.

-istp

mellow_pilot · Post by **mellow_pilot** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:45 am

I support the glider comments. Valuable things like s-turns are not taught to powered pilots, but they are awesome tools, lose a bit of altitude with out re-config or looking away from the feild, great manouver in my book, used it a couple times in training.

The comments about treating it like the real thing are also valid. Do an engine-off approach to land at an airport from 3000 over head. That'll learn you good! You'd be sureprised the difference between putting it on the ground and overshooting at 200'. A lot of the feilds you've "made", you didn't. Also, at an airport, if possible setup to land on grass, or off the runway and overshoot at, say, 10'. Landing on a runway is a picture you've seen before, keep in mind there are no nice 1000'markers and other references in a cow padock.

RatherBeFlying · Post by **RatherBeFlying** » Fri Apr 06, 2007 7:49 pm

Glider landings are too easy. Start with a 30:1 glide ratio compared to 8:1 in your average single; then add humongous spoilers that can make it come down like a rock and a rollout of maybe 50 yards without braking.

It's a real gas to hear the tailwheel brushing through the grass; then you just ease back a bit more on the spoilers to put the mainwheel on the ground.

Just don't forget that you don't have an engine to take it around again if you screw up.

Every time I think I know how to land the Citabria, it re-educates me.

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