Jazz is the ghetto of Canadian Aviation

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:39 pm

Was talking to a guy presently flying a Dash 8 for flybe for the last 3 years making some good money, especially since he graduated from aviation college and got hired onto the Dash 8 immediately. Went to check out and compare Flybe's salary scale to Jazz's.

These are all base salaries BTW, Flybe's been converted to Canadian currency

Flybe
FO - $47,986/yr to $73,023/yr
CA - $95,073/yr to $117,649/yr

Jazz
FO - $35,000/yr to $56,700/yr
CA - $62,000/yr to $89,100/yr

I'm sorry but thats a huge gap! I dont know who, with thousands of hours of experience would work for that. I'm starting to wonder who the real prostitutes in this industry are HAHAHAHA shame!

BTW are there any FO's at Jazz that drive an M3?

Good Day

JZA · Post by **JZA** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:47 pm

Keep in mind there is a HUGE cost of living difference between the UK (Europe in general) and Canada.

Where are you getting your salary numbers from by the way....while it takes a long time to get there....an FO at Jazz tops our at around $65,000 by my calculations.....and a Captain tops out at around $115,000.

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:52 pm

If you are living in London for sure but most of these guys are in smaller places like Southampton and Birmingham. Living in Toronto or even Vancouver is way more expensive even if you're in the surrounding suburbs

I got them off of Airline Central. And these were the basic salary.
FlyBe's I got off of PPJN

pika · Post by **pika** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:53 pm

That's 23 000 GBP. Still poverty wages.

Localizer · Post by **Localizer** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:01 pm

Im not sure what the point of your post is? .. Sounds like your just trying to get a lot of people pissed off. Would you prefer that people give up their lifestyle and live in the middle of nowhere and hope that Air Canada calls them one day .. and when they call, that you manage to make it through there gauntlet?

Im not sure what choices you made in your life, or where you ended up by making them, but there is a lot more to life my friend.

Grab a cold one and watch the sun go down .... thats livin'!

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:13 pm

I'm making a point. Everyone is crying about ppl not screwing other ppl in this industry by getting a type rating or PPC when infact they are doing the same thing by accepting crap wages.

23000GDP is $45,000+ to fly right seat on a Dash 8-400Q. I dont think thats poverty wage. How many of you made that out of school?

And I already had a couple cold ones today.. its nice to do nothing for once.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:22 pm

To the O.P.:

You're not comparing the proverbial apples. 23K GBP is definitely poverty wages. It's the Big Mac rule of economics. Cost of a Big Mac in the UK is about the same in GBP as it is in Canada in CAD. So earning 23K GBP in the UK is like earning 23K CAD in Canada, more or less. Consider higher taxes and higher overall living expenses, higher cost of automobiles, general transport, and petrol. At 4 quid a pint, beer ain't cheap either.

Having said that, I am sure that upward mobility is far greater in the UK.

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:26 pm

bizjet_mania wrote:I'm making a point. Everyone is crying about ppl not screwing other ppl in this industry by getting a type rating or PPC when infact they are doing the same thing by accepting crap wages.

23000GDP is $45,000+ to fly right seat on a Dash 8-400Q. I dont think thats poverty wage. How many of you made that out of school?

And I already had a couple cold ones today.. its nice to do nothing for once.

It is crap wages if you have to live in the UK...see above post. So it kind of makes your question irrelevant. however, if somehow, you could earn 23k GBP while living in Canada, now that wouldn't be so bad. If you have to live in the UK, then it's poverty wages I'm afraid. If you want to follow that example, a corner store cashier in the UK makes 16K GBP per year...that is 40K CAD...maybe all those 7-11 workers in canada should rise up in revolt.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:28 pm

I'm with you, Bizjet. Jazz salaries are crap. Especially when you compare them with other sectors of the industry, not just other -8 operators. Besides, Jazz has to have the oldest -8s on the planet (well, they did - I haven't flown with them since early 2000!).

How can you pay an airline-qualified FO less than a Navajo driver?

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:29 pm

I dont know. You guys may be right. But I doubt anyone can afford to live in Toronto comftably out of school with $18,000/yr. I think 23000GBP is pretty good being out with a nice crisp CPL... even better if you're still living with mom and dad

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:33 pm

It was right about enough time being past since the last Jazz bash. Way to start it up again biz. Anything new would be nice but this salary talk is old. You lament of having finally nothing to do and what? You waste what sounds like a precious day off by rehashing crap. Can't wait till your next day off!

wallypilot · Post by **wallypilot** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:35 pm

I'm with you, though, in spirit....Jazz salaries are crap....i'm just not sure your argument holds up. But that aside, salaries at Jazz will force them to hire lower and lower experience until they have to hire college grads just to fill the seats...

....oh wait...aren't they doing that already?

The answer to crap salaries, though, is to just not work there. It's easy. Don't apply, don't go to the interview if they call you and don't worry about it. Don't think about it in terms of airplanes. Think about it purely in terms of the company and the job. In any other industry, would you see someone going to a lower salaried job, that probably won't pay them the salary they just left for another 8 years? Don't think about the airplane. An airplane is an airplane. There is this huge stigma that going airline is EVERYTHING. Well, it's not any more. What company and what type of flying gives you the lifestyle you want? If it is Jazz, then great...apply. Maybe it's AC, maybe it's Conair, maybe it's Borek, maybe it's a corporate job. Maybe you want to ferry light aircraft worldwide (a favorite of mine). Maybe you want to run a flight school. Whatever. There are a million choices out there. AC/WJ/ACJ is not the be all end all for every personality out there, and don't let a bunch of sheep tell you that it is. For some it is, for others it isn't. Isn't life grand?

Chase lifestyle, not airplanes.

'nuff said.

bizjet_mania · Post by **bizjet_mania** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:39 pm

oh crap I was just reading about Jazz hiring college grads... Ive been away for a long time. Yea so looks like there was enough talk about Jazz.

Ah well, back to watching videos of Paris Hilton crying like a bit*h!

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:58 pm

Had to laugh today, the wife was flying YVR-YKA today on Jazz and phoned me when she got there to tell me it was the absolute worst landing she'd ever experienced.. Probably one of the 250hr grads doing their first.. She thought the gear was going up through the wings.. I'm thinking maybe they were trying to emulate the landing in YYZ a couple weeks ago.. I guess you get what you pay for..

twotter · Post by **twotter** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:01 am

This thing isn't working right tonight...

JZA · Post by **JZA** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 12:19 am

No 250 hour grads in the system yet.

What ... do you grease on every landing or something? Maybe you can share some tips with the rest of us.

Username#1 · Post by **Username#1** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:20 am

Let's bash another company for a while...for the 250hr guys that don't get on with Jazz, they can go to CMA, work ramp for two years then take a pay cut to go right seat on the 1900 for $22,500

desksgo · Post by **desksgo** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:27 am

You guys know he's fishing right? Hey Biz, you still have both feet firmly planted on the ground?

Nothing like shaking your fist at the sky as those RJ's pass over your head.

ei ei owe · Post by **ei ei owe** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:04 am

twotter wrote:Had to laugh today, the wife was flying YVR-YKA today on Jazz and phoned me when she got there to tell me it was the absolute worst landing she'd ever experienced.. Probably one of the 250hr grads doing their first.. She thought the gear was going up through the wings.. I'm thinking maybe they were trying to emulate the landing in YYZ a couple weeks ago.. I guess you get what you pay for..

Have you told her that it's different than when she watches you fly on your sim/computer?

fogghorn · Post by **fogghorn** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:36 am

ei ei owe wrote:
twotter wrote:Had to laugh today, the wife was flying YVR-YKA today on Jazz and phoned me when she got there to tell me it was the absolute worst landing she'd ever experienced.. Probably one of the 250hr grads doing their first.. She thought the gear was going up through the wings.. I'm thinking maybe they were trying to emulate the landing in YYZ a couple weeks ago.. I guess you get what you pay for..
And your wife does what?

Who cares what the wife does, most people with an IQ over 10 can discern a good landing from a pounding. Half these guys coming out of these colleges cannot fly the airplane properly. Their heads are so full of numbers and crap that the hands on is being pushed aside. The recent gear failure on the RJ in TO (i believe) could likely have been the result of one to many botched xwind landings. Jazz is putting people on these aircraft who have not mastered a 172, its pathetic.

Jazz is the ghetto of Canadian Aviation

Jazz is the ghetto of Canadian Aviation

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Re: Jazz is the ghetto of Canadian Aviation